Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ColinS]

Is it possible the rain has reduced the HR issue to the point that the stats are showing an improvement?
and would it suggest any HR issue is more likely to be underground?

Yes. Wet weather can cause improvements in certain HR situations.  If the cause is 'necking' of some part of the copper loop (i.e. it is narrower than gauge at that point, and so it's resistance is higher), and if water can also intrude, then you could imagine that the water could 'fill-in' for the missing copper at that point, and reduce the resistance - at least until it dries out again, making it an 'intermittent' HR fault.

Possibly more likely, but not  necessarily.  This could happen anywhere wher rain can intrude - e.g. the cover of a pole-top has not been replaced properly, etc.

[Berrick]

Thanks for the info.

I suspect beatie no very well what the "fault" is but cost considerations mean they are applying plasters and using process and proceedure to argue what they have done is sufficient, rather than apply a permanent fix

[ColinS]

If you still have audible noise on your phone's QLN test from the NTE test socket, then report it as a voice fault (preferrably, when they can hear it themselves while you do so!), and don't mention anythig about broadband.  If they fix that, it can only help your broadband. 

[Berrick]

@ColinS

I reported the fault to voice and whilst on the phone to the help desk they could hear the noise and agreed to send an engineer even though the line tests where clear.

Shortly after speaking to the help desk the "noise" went away... how strange 

[Berrick]

Morning one and all,

My adsl issues continue so am hear once again asking for advice.

Are there any potential fixes that can be implemented on the line by beatie which would stop it from dropping out for short periods of really low SNR values?

I have noticed that when using the phone although the SNR drops the router is now staying in sync. However frequently when this happens I find I can not use the internet and when I check it is because I have lost my IP address on the wan I/F

Yesterday was terrible for this and long phone calls would actually kill the BB. Streaming is un usable as it will start just fine then just stop. RDP would frequently kick me out  .

This morning I did a quick QT test  and in less than 5 minutes CRC errors had plateau'd at 3200 and FEC's were still rising at 90,000. All returned to normal shortly after the phone call was ended.

Beatie are running more tests  I can't help but think they know what the fault is but wont cough up the money to put it right.

Thanks in advance

[kitz]

Some of your symptoms are so similar to mine.

>> Yesterday was terrible for this and long phone calls would actually kill the BB.

Yep, had this occur, not to the extent of killing the adsl, but whilst on the phone everything would go sloooow.
Obviously this is happens when the line is racking up a large amount of errors and data is constantly having to be re-transmitted.

>> All returned to normal shortly after the phone call was ended.

Ive found that a phone call can sometimes actually improve the line for a short while afterwards.   
Theres even a screen cap in one of my posts where i showed that once the SNRm started dipping, I could deliberately force the SNRm to recover for a while by taking the phone off the hook for a minute. (@ 12.40).

 

>>> Are there any potential fixes that can be implemented on the line by beatie which would stop it from dropping out for short periods of really low SNR values?

Whats the current target SNRm?    The higher the TARGET SNRm should give you more of a buffer zone to keep the line more stable.  The downside of this is that your sync speed will be less....   and as you can see with mine a large  buffer zone still doesnt even guarantee that no drop outs will occur.

The other thing is a banded profile, but tbh that would be a last resort, and I dont see why you should have to sacrifice speed because of what looks like an obvious HR fault. 


>>> Shortly after speaking to the help desk the "noise" went away

Yes Ive had a phone call with my ISP that was so bad at times he couldnt hear me.   Ironically after a couple of bad calls, the voice quality will also recover.   Not only are the dsl problems are intermittent, but also the voice side of things too.

[Berrick]

Morning kitezen's

I'm not lost for words, just those which aren't Anglo Saxon;

BT wholesale are refusing point blank to carry out further work to try and sort the problem I have been experiencing for the last 3 - 4 weeks.

Yesterday, through out the day, every time I used the phone the BB would die and I would receive a new IP address. On a few occasions I didn't get a new IP address but  the line would initially drop 10-12 consecutive pings then ping response times would be rather high with intermittent dropped ping. 

I had one long phone call about 1800 and during this call the BB died altogether and the only way to get it back was to power down the router and leave it off before powering back on.

In frustration I phoned BT only to be told that as my "BB was operating within parameters" no further engineers visits would be scheduled. The working within parameters wasn't explained I had to push to get an explanation. I'm sure people here will have heard this before but I was staggered to be told that over a seven day period an average of 10 resyncs a day were within parameters!! Seems to me BT are hiding behind policy as my "resyncs" are as a result of a line problem?

My view is they aren't listening to the facts, i.e. the phone is causing the BB to fail, I have really bad line stats SNR bouncing all over, CRC's regularly hitting several thousand or worse, HEC's hitting 20 and FEC's hitting hundreds of thousands. In fact if you need a saw tooth generator get BT broadband.

I sure it hasn't helped that the last BT engineer that actually attended, ran a line check for about 10 minutes on one of the days that the line was good and didn't see anything to raise concerns even though I did point out normally the line was terrible.

Eventually BT ran some "line tests" and phoned me back telling me the problem till now has been passed to the wrong team as the problem was to do with RAS and authentication?? I haven't been having problems authenticating  . When I questioned this BT have said as a result of the work to be carried out in the exchange I will be moved to a new port.

I have to hope that the problems I have been seeing (possible HR) are fixed when this happens. I would appreciate the views of others as my view is that BT, rather than fix the fault are trying to apply plasters to mask the problem

[ColinS]

Oh dear, Berrick!

- And I only thought I was being light-hearted on Kitz's thread when I referred to the 'normalisation (i.e. acceptance) of deviance (i.e. performance far from normal)'!

Just to ask explicitly: did BT ever attend to fix the voice fault they heard?  The fact that it went away after the call could just have been, as Kitz said, a 'wetting' current temporarily overcoming the HR.

Personally, I've never heard of <10 resyncs/day being 'within parameters' before.  I believe that there is a body of evidence that suggests that if DLM saw those 10 resyncs in day, it would almost certainly intervene.  Perhaps they were referring to PPP connections instead, since they subsequently referred to RAS?  Are there any sign of these 10 resyncs in your stats?

[Berrick]

Hi ColinS,

No they are very specifically using the "10 resyncs on average a day over 7 days" and that "the line is operating within its specification" as their justification for not sending another engineer. It made no difference what I said or who I spoke too they were adamant there is nothing wrong.

The possible PPP authentication issue was only mentioned after BT ran "further tests"

As regards the fault raised with voice I had to cancel the appointment and in my naivety, as there was no fault showing when they ran line test and I hadn't heard the sounds since said to close the issue

[ColinS]

Hi ColinS,

No they are very specifically using the "10 resyncs on average a day over 7 days" and that "the line is operating within its specification" as their justification for not sending another engineer.

[Edit] Sorry my original reply misunderstood what you said - you are saying no it's not the PPP connections, they specifically said 'resyncs', yes?  OK, I understand that's what they said, but my question was, was that really what they meant? Not that I expect you to know the answer to that any more than me!
An average of 10/day would, in my experience (apart from my opinion), almost certainly cause DLM to intervene. Mind you, I am aware of one other contributor to the forum who has a bullet-proof connection that apparently can have just about anything done to it and suffers no ill-effects.  Perhaps you're on the same ISP, one that perhaps doesn't use DLM?!

[Berrick]

PPP was only mentioned after they carried out further test. Personally I think it was just something to get me off the line.

I had a look at the T&C's for BT (my ISP) BB that are online and I couldn't see any mention of these figures I am being quoted. Would you happen to know where I might find out?

[ColinS]

Sorry I don't.  Perhaps BS might be able to comment.

[Berrick]

Perhaps BS might be able to comment

I suspect I know why BT are stating I have PPP issues.

Currently if I make phone callers that are longer then say 5 minutes the BB dies as in all other cases. The difference with these calls is that the BB doesn't recover. I have to power cycle the router.

[HPsauce]

the BB doesn't recover. I have to power cycle the router.

As I'm sure you know, that is not expected behaviour of a router.
Is it your router or BT's? Whatever, I'd get a replacement and try that.

[kitz]

Oh no

>> Personally, I've never heard of <10 resyncs/day being 'within parameters' before.

Hmmmm  is this something new?

Reading that has just recalled what the engineer to me this morning said which was something like  "You only had 2 resyncs yesterday, which is normally acceptable".    I had forgotten he said that until I read your thread.

The other danger on this is that quick re-syncs arent always picked up on WOOSH therefore not all resyncs may be logged.


The RAS and authentication seems to be a cop out and its not relevant to your fault.


Most BToR engineers dont look at SNRm, but they should easily be able to see the large amount of errors generated, which is something they should be looking at.



Can you try BT again, you may get someone else who doesnt try fob you off with authentication issues.   
This is one area where I feel that I have been lucky in that Plusnet have supported me all through this. I was about ready to throw the towel in earlier this week.. it was my ISP that booked another appt and rejected BToRs earlier responses...  and before anyone says anything, nope its not just me, others such as BaldEagle have found that Plusnet do reject if they feel something can be done.   Zen & AAISP are 2 other ISPs that also known to adopt this attitude.      I am concerned about this 10 resyncs per day news though