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Author Topic: EMI ?  (Read 42696 times)

kitz

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2013, 11:18:01 AM »

or faulty filters etc..   I really dont have time to mess atm.   :'(
etc. includes your router and wiring of course.  ;)
(comment about no power near NTE noted  :( )

I know...  I need to do the master socket thing I guess, but this is a real PITA because of no power nearby...  it involves shifting some heavy furniture and trailing a power extension lead across the doorway to the lounge.   Also when I used to test via the NTE I had a laptop.   Can hardly shift the PC downstairs too. :(

Just this am sent a message to one of the PN guys about HWS
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HPsauce

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2013, 11:26:34 AM »

I need to do the master socket thing I guess, but this is a real PITA because of no power nearby... 
Can't you extend the router DC power, just needs thin 2-core flex which can run around skirting boards etc. and some choc-bloc connectors.  ;)
And obviously a long LAN cable if you need a wired connection, which you probably don't to monitor the router stats.

I use TP-Link WR-702N "nano" routers to pick up the wireless LAN and provide an RJ45 LAN connection transparently for various devices, especially when testing.
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kitz

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2013, 11:31:36 AM »

Just my 2 cents worth.....

while I was with O2, with which I had been very happy indeed, at the same time as all the work was going on to install the local fibre cabinets, my O2 service did take a bit of a hit on several occasions. This would have been around December last year.


toulouse

Cheers for the comments..   when the cab was going in I did see some disruption which I mentioned at the time.  That seemed to settle down after a couple of days.

I really do need to do the NTE thing, I'll see if I can borrow a lappy, it will be much easier.  I can bear with a trailing power cable for a few days to the router.   As long as I warn any visitors to be careful  :D 
 
Not sure why this would rear its head literally days after Id decided I was going to move.   Unsure what to do because if its a line fault need it fixing before I move..  and its now going to be hard to raise a fault after Ive requested a MAC.

If its internal wiring or something to do with the Be* MSAN, then that will be solved during migration and a HWS.  :-\

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ColinS

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2013, 05:36:51 PM »

Kitz,

Have you considered simply maintaining the distributed filter arrangement you have with your existing ADSL2+M solution?  Leave everything where it is; let them install in the hall, and after 24hrs, remove the SSFP, and put your dongles back in and run the VDSL modem and router upstairs?  :-\
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kitz

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2013, 10:32:38 PM »

Thanks Colin.   At first I thought good idea..  But on 2nd thoughts perhaps not the best solution.

1. I doubt the engineer could fit it in the hall from the existing nte because of the lack of power nearby anyhow.

2. The existing setup has about 20-30m extension which goes up the stairs hidden under carpet - length is long because it follows the up and level of each stair.. It's then hidden under some skirting floor boards which I can't now easily acess becaue I thought years ago when putting in fitted furnature it would be a good idea to hide it all away.   This cable is/was cat5,  BUT, it's had the spare wires stripped out leaving only one pair.   Years ago it was a good idea because the other pairs weren't needed and it also made the cable thinner and more flexible.  Admittedly it wasn't me that did all the hard work of cable stripping. 

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I've really been racking my brains about how best to do this... Tbh one of the other reasons for delay is its the cabling that has been a major concern for me.

I have my MAC and just tried placing an order with PN, and I notice there is an additional option which must be the HWS which gives a free 30m data extension kit.

 However I seem to be having problems ordering online and it keeps chucking me back out to the help section.  I could order as a new customer fine...  but I still have my old PN login and email so I'm in effect I'm trying to add an order to my existing account via the upgrade path.  I'll try phoning on Monday and see if I can speak with someone who knows me as I would like to retain the same account if I can.

if I get chance ill try draw a rough plan to see if anyone can think of best possible cabling solution.
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kitz

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2013, 12:20:48 AM »

Just had a look see what the line has been doing today, and touch wood its been relatively stable as far as the SNRM is concerned. :fingers:

Attenuation has changed again - very slightly for the better  ???

Code: [Select]
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 10,4 / 13,5
I now 'have' a lappy which I will install DSLstats on, but Im not moving heavy furniture around at this time of night too hook the router up from the master socket.


>>> if I get chance ill try draw a rough plan to see if anyone can think of best possible cabling solution.

Ive just done a quick search and on the PN forums, Ive found a few of posts which sound a similar set-up to mine.  ie existing NTE in a hall with no power, and the room directly above being used for router location.
 
Solution in all 3 cases was to relocate the Master socket to the bedroom/study and then 'backwire' the extension, so what was the old NTE becomes a normal extension.  I do aim to do a wee bit of cabling rejig though too first.. to try and make things a bit simpler/tidier for a new set up.

These are Barratt houses so thinking about it, there surely must be a heck of a lot homes in the same style with the same problem of no power near the NTE, and people using the 3rd bedroom as a study & router location.



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kitz

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2013, 10:18:07 AM »

According to dslstats, line has been stable again last night and SNRm has hardly moved. Im talking variances of 0.1 / 0.2  and whilst not quite my usual rock steady flat lining, I can cope with that.

Hmmm  neighbour is away this w/e :-\

However perhaps just co-incidence as the changes in atten have occurred since shes been away, and also some of the really bad noise spikes from a couple of days ago sometimes occurred when she was at work.

Still have the high increased attenuation and its perhaps knocked about 100 kbps from my upstream sync and Im seeing more CRC/HECs than normal,  but aside from that, the line is acceptable atm.
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ColinS

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2013, 06:36:44 PM »

Thanks Colin.   At first I thought good idea..  But on 2nd thoughts perhaps not the best solution.
Sure, whatever you think is best. However...
Quote
1. I doubt the engineer could fit it in the hall from the existing nte because of the lack of power nearby anyhow.
So, what would you do now if (as you suspect) you had a DSL fault that needed the modem/router to be plugged directly into the NTE test socket?  Pehaps, temporarily, use a trailing extension power lead?  If so, that's all you'd need to do here to.  No?  :-\
Quote
2. The existing setup has about 20-30m extension which goes up the stairs hidden under carpet - length is long because it follows the up and level of each stair.. It's then hidden under some skirting floor boards which I can't now easily acess becaue I thought years ago when putting in fitted furnature it would be a good idea to hide it all away.   This cable is/was cat5,  BUT, it's had the spare wires stripped out leaving only one pair.   Years ago it was a good idea because the other pairs weren't needed and it also made the cable thinner and more flexible.  Admittedly it wasn't me that did all the hard work of cable stripping. 
I understand perfectly.  It is these practical issues that makes all such connections difficult in existing installations.  Got a new build in a green field somewhere, fine, you can call in all your friends and 'do a BB4N'.  But live in a 100 yr. old multi-storey building in a conservation area, and it becomes a lot more difficult.  Each installation has its own optimal solution.  There is no 'one-size' solution that fits all, no matter how enthusiastic some people may be. IMO, of course. ;)
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kitz

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2013, 08:06:54 PM »

Sorry I think I may have misunderstood what you meant?
Do you mean running exactly as is now without any VDSL faceplate.  So therefore remove/reverse what the engineer does after he's gone back to...

NTE5a --> 20+m of telephone extension ->> LJU --> adsl filter ---> FTTC modem  --> FTTC router.

Would this be ok?  Perhaps my mistake because I thought you had to use data extension from the VDSL faceplate at the master socket.  Sorry if Im a n00b with this, no-one else I know has FTTC, its not even available from the other Blackpool exchanges yet, so Im about to start my own learning process and hence why I dont have much input in the FTTC section atm

Quote
So, what would you do now if (as you suspect) you had a DSL fault that needed the modem/router to be plugged directly into the NTE test socket?  Pehaps, temporarily, use a trailing extension power lead?  If so, that's all you'd need to do here to.  No?

Yes and hence the delay in testing from the NTE as I also need a loan of a lappy to hook up to the router to read stats. 
I have concrete floors and the doors are tight fitting which dont allow sufficient room to open over electric extension cable.  It therefore obstructs the opening of the door between the hall and lounge.

If I test via the NTE for any reason then I need to get an (electric) extension cable and trail it across the door leading into the lounge., and into the hall.  Its lethal though if anyone walks in to the front room.

My query was that I think any engineer would see straight away how very much of an obstruction the cable is by not allowing proper access to the lounge from the hall and know that it cant in anyway be a permanent solution?
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Black Sheep

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2013, 06:36:05 PM »

Righty-o .............. we've just received a new communique stating that we can go back to terminating the data-extention cable directly onto the krone terminations of the VDSL frontplate. This is preferred over connecting via the RJ45 method.

So, Kitz, the easiest method of installing FTTC at your premises would be to .......... leave the original NTE5 where it is in the hallway (as it could feed other extention sockets, SKY set-top box, alarm auto-dialler, anything really). Then, ask the engineer (if he can't suss it himself) to terminate the CAT5 pair onto the krone strips of the VDSL frontplate. Now, upstairs, he only has to change the existing telephone extention socket over to a data-extention socket and hey presto ......... job done.
The modem and router can now be sited upstairs and no new wiring need be run.   
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kitz

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2013, 11:21:51 PM »

Thank you for the info :)
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ColinS

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2013, 06:10:31 PM »

Sorry I think I may have misunderstood what you meant?
Do you mean running exactly as is now without any VDSL faceplate.  So therefore remove/reverse what the engineer does after he's gone back to...

NTE5a --> 20+m of telephone extension ->> LJU --> adsl filter ---> FTTC modem  --> FTTC router.

Would this be ok? 

Yes, that was what I meant and yes, IMO, it would (this is how mine is run, and it is totally compliant with SIN498)  - but see my reply to BS below.  :)
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ColinS

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2013, 06:24:24 PM »

Righty-o .............. we've just received a new communique stating that we can go back to terminating the data-extention cable directly onto the krone terminations of the VDSL frontplate. This is preferred over connecting via the RJ45 method.
Well, I'm glad they finally realised how stupid their previous instruction was then.  :no:  It's a shame that what you have/are allowed to do is subject to such contrariness, but hey ho!  ;)

Quote
So, Kitz, the easiest method of installing FTTC at your premises would be to .......... leave the original NTE5 where it is in the hallway (as it could feed other extention sockets, SKY set-top box, alarm auto-dialler, anything really). Then, ask the engineer (if he can't suss it himself) to terminate the CAT5 pair onto the krone strips of the VDSL frontplate. Now, upstairs, he only has to change the existing telephone extention socket over to a data-extention socket and hey presto ......... job done.
The modem and router can now be sited upstairs and no new wiring need be run.
Yes, it would be, especially as Kitz is unlikely to want to change the location of her equipment room, and it also avoids the need for the (temporary) trailing power socket and DSL filter when testing at the NTE5a test socket. :thumbs:

However, the new instruction leaves an interesting debate on the location of the 'soft' (VDSL) NTE location.  IMO, it will remain where it always is, which is now be upstairs in the VDSL modem (where this is separate).  So, no need to traipse back downstairs to test except where there is evidence to believe that the CAT 5 data extension cable (which it has now become) is itself faulty, then? ::)  But somehow I suspect that trailing power socket will still be useful for those 'play-it-by-the-script' sceptics (which excludes you, obviously!) :lol:

[Edit] The more I think about it, I suspect that OR will quietly abandon the 'soft' NTE boundary, as, with the new Cab-only installations, the time will come shortly when OR will no longer be providing the VDSL modem, and so won't need to 'support' them like they currently do. ::)  Is there any known instance of OR using TR069 to actively manage any of these modems, e.g. by updating firmware, or (god forbid) switching them off while they work on tone-tracing pairs in a cabinet. ;D
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 06:33:26 PM by ColinS »
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Black Sheep

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2013, 07:40:56 PM »

Hi Colin, I've no idea if TR069 is used to 'manage' remote modems. TBH, it doesn't fall within my job remit which, as a multi-skilled engineer, is way enough as it is !!  :)

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ColinS

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Re: EMI ?
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2013, 07:57:37 PM »

Hi Colin, I've no idea if TR069 is used to 'manage' remote modems. TBH, it doesn't fall within my job remit which, as a multi-skilled engineer, is way enough as it is !!  :)
:friends:
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