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Author Topic: At long last !!  (Read 23692 times)

waltergmw

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2013, 02:34:46 PM »

Perhaps BS can arrange for a "snip & shift" ?

RE testing the tie pairs on a partial fault including the filter cct, that could well produce some strange results, unless BS has a supply of semtex or even borrow a magic FTTC key ? (Pace the Gestapo ! )

Otherwise doing repeat tests on the faulty pair and the next available open pair might yield something ?

I have come across one line fault which was traced to the tie pair but thankfully that only needed the PCP end re-crimping.

Kind regards,
Walter
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burakkucat

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2013, 04:26:32 PM »

If the FTTC in question is of Huawei origin and of the larger style, then the right-hand door of the pair (providing access to the filters and tie-pair connections, etc) can be released with the standard triangular key . . . assuming the central security lock can also be released. It is only the left-hand door (providing access to the DSLAM, PSU and BBU) which requires a "star" key for its release.

Perhaps Black Sheep should kidnap a BT Operate technician and take her/him to the FTTC . . .  ;)
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Black Sheep

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2013, 04:32:08 PM »

Very, very quick update. New D-side provided, PCP to BT66 and still it tests 'B Tap' on WHOOSH !! Going to change the NTE5 backplate, and also swop the feed  pair from the BT66 to NTE onto one of the spares. That is all I can do without having a ligit job raised.
TBH the only thing left is as Mr Cat said, the tie-pairs !!! I'm wondering if a rogue wire has been terminated onto my pair on the Krone/Quante strips ?? Either way, I'll know later as to whether to have a job raised legitimately, or that it has been cured. Cheers guys.   
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2013, 05:13:00 PM »


I'm wondering if a rogue wire has been terminated onto my pair on the Krone/Quante strips ?? Either way, I'll know later as to whether to have a job raised legitimately, or that it has been cured. Cheers guys.


It doesn't seem to be unknown for something like that to happen somewhere in the usual rats nest of wiring.

You may recall this from my very short thread here:-
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,9726.msg198301.html#msg198301  ;)

"Anyway, he came back from the cabinet & using words like "absolute stupidity", he explained that he had found that "someone" had "double jumpered" another D-side cable onto the fibre connection that my D-side was connected to, & that was probably the explanation for the broadband disconnections, crackly phone line etc.
He confirmed that he had disconnected the "extra/redundant" cable."

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Black Sheep

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2013, 05:45:27 PM »

Hmm, I'm struggling to recall that instance, BE ?? Run the problems you had by me again, if you would ??  ;) :lol:

Another quick update, Everything from the existing PCP right through to my Modem has been checked, or changed. This can only be the tie-pair or the port itself, to my mind ?? I'm not risking entry into the FTTC, so have raised a genuine task in order to sort this out properly.

My only thoughts are, that still the WHOOSH GEA test shows as 'Bridged Tap - fault within EU's wiring/Premises'. Obviously, this is not so, but am wondering how this may cause genuine confusion to others on the test-desks or out in the field ?? That said, I'm not knocking the test system (as it is probably the best I've ever seen in my years at BT), and appreciate it must be difficult to localise a possible fault from a robotic test ??

Hey-ho ...... that's life. :)
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burakkucat

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2013, 06:32:07 PM »

It doesn't seem to be unknown for something like that to happen somewhere in the usual rats nest of wiring.

You may recall this from my very short thread here:-
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,9726.msg198301.html#msg198301  ;)

"Anyway, he came back from the cabinet & using words like "absolute stupidity", he explained that he had found that "someone" had "double jumpered" another D-side cable onto the fibre connection that my D-side was connected to, & that was probably the explanation for the broadband disconnections, crackly phone line etc.
He confirmed that he had disconnected the "extra/redundant" cable."


Yes, I remember that well!

Of course the cabinet being referred thereto, above, was the PCP and not the FTTC, as you had the undivided attention of an Openreach, not an Operate, technician.  :P
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burakkucat

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2013, 06:38:54 PM »

Quote
Another quick update, Everything from the existing PCP right through to my Modem has been checked, or changed. This can only be the tie-pair or the port itself, to my mind ?? I'm not risking entry into the FTTC, so have raised a genuine task in order to sort this out properly.

Hopefully you will be able to raise the task without resorting to  :wall:  and  :comp:  . . .  the normal techniques needed to be used by ordinary EUs when dealing with Beattie India.

It would be nice if you could be present when the correct entity goes to investigate the FTTC:)
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Black Sheep

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2013, 08:53:43 PM »

Thanks for your concern, B*Cat, but another really brilliant thing BT have implemented for their staff, is a division called 'Actionline'.
I just fill in the necessary details on an e-form, and they do the leg-work so to speak. I've used them umpteen times for all sorts of issues, and have to say they are without doubt the biggest asset employees have for cutting through the quagmire of s**t, Mr Average EU has to contend with.

It will be a bog-standard FTTC Openreach engineer that ends up with the task, hopefully myself if I can track it down ?? If the port or the ties are faulty, then a 'Lift & Shift' will follow, so no need for BT Operate, or a PCR Engineer to attend site just yet.  :)   
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Bald_Eagle1

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2013, 10:12:00 PM »

Aren't you able to grab a Hlog graph via the JDSU?

If it shows anything untoward like a 'V' shape 'before' a lift & shift or whatever it would be interesting to view it again 'after'.

Of course, if you could somehow lay your hands on a spare HG612 & a Windows PC..............................(purely in the name of research).

Example before & after Hlog graphs attached (the bridged tap was inside the EU's on this occasion).



EDIT:

Speeds went from:-

Max:   Upstream rate = 7533 Kbps, Downstream rate = 16948 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 2000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 13211 Kbps

to

Max:   Upstream rate = 7839 Kbps, Downstream rate = 28744 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 7893 Kbps, Downstream rate = 26068 Kbps
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 10:16:04 PM by Bald_Eagle1 »
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burakkucat

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2013, 11:04:33 PM »

Not wishing to be 'outdone' by an avian entity, I attach a pair of example images that I have retained for occasions such as this.  ;)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2013, 11:06:45 PM by burakkucat »
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Black Sheep

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2013, 07:43:24 PM »

Thanks for the Hlog info guys, but I'm afraid I've never seen this function on the JDSU, that's not say it's not in there somewhere ??  ???

I had a slight heart-stopping moment today (slightly exaggerated  ;D), whereby I found myself in the Exchange for lunch and decided I'd quickly re-run my jumper directly from the Telephone EN to my Bar/Pair on the MDF, thus disconnecting the old ADSL equipment.
Imagine my joy when I then ran a GEA test and the result came back with a great result, no sign of the 'Bridged Tap'. I performed a 'Recalc', and after 10 mins carried out another GEA test. Imagine my dismay as I witnessed my line in synch at the full 80/20Meg speeds, but the damned 'Bridged Tap' had returned !!!

I'm going to continue monitoring my circuit to see how the DLM behaves.  :) 
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c6em

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2013, 09:34:56 PM »

Actually that's an interesting point.....
User's BB supply from the Dslam gets patched into their line in the PCP cabinet
I assumed it gets patched in where the D and E side cables join together
Surely to the broadband DSLAM in the cabinet the the unused (for BB) E side back to the exchange represents a huge bridged tap to the intended path of the signal down the tie cables and on along down the D side?
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burakkucat

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2013, 11:33:57 PM »

That, indeed, would be the case if the low-pass, high-block filters were not present in the E-side . . .

ASCII art:

   Fibre Optic Link
      v        v     v
-------------------------------- DSLAM
                                     /   \
                                 Filter  \
                    ---------------/        \---------------
                    ^                                     ^
        E-side copper pair             D-side copper pair

b*cat wishes to thank Walter for providing the original photograph from which the following two images have been created.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 12:02:55 AM by burakkucat »
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waltergmw

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2013, 11:54:22 PM »

@ c6em,

If you count the filter blocks (or have the original photograph !!) you will see there's only 64 thus confirming only the first line card is installed.
The worrying thing we note now is that several have been removed suggesting serious problems for those channels.

Kind regards,
Walter
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c6em

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Re: At long last !!
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2013, 08:16:30 AM »

Thanks to you both for the reply.
I knew I must have been missing something - like a filter but up to now had never heard of them being mentioned.
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