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[razpag]

Hmmm, tough call this one BBNovice.

The bottom line is, you have purchased a house and all that comes with it. It's neither your fault the wiring is sub-standard, nor Openreaches. Its like finding your electrical wiring was amiss and expecting your local electrical board to correct it.

The problem lies with the fact that the incoming line meets all the extention wiring in this 'Heath Robinson' type junction box. When you say it looks like an "alarm connecting block", do you mean as in one of those magnetic contacts you see on doors ? The reason I ask is how 'ex' is the 'ex-BT engineer' ?? As junction boxes have changed over the years and he may not be aware of the newer types. Long shot, but it's worth asking.

My honest opinion is, ask for a SFI Broadband engineering visit. The cost of this is picked up by the SP, and they decide if this cost will passed on after reading our (the engineers) report once the job is completed. I can't speak on behalf of the SP's, but if the Broadband part of the circuit is enhanced (ie- a lot quicker speeds and stability) by the removal of star-wiring, then you have a happy end-user without cause for further complaint, and one who will likely be happy to use word-of-mouth to let people know what a great service such-and-such SP provide. Would the SP pass on the £160 cost in this situation ? My guess is they would stand the cost themselves.

The SFI engineer would provide an NTE (demarcation point) as part of the job.
 

[HPsauce]

The junction box is just inside the window of the study screwed to the wall.

A photo of the outside (and inside if you dare) would be of interest. 

[bbnovice]

Many thanks for the replies razpag and hp sauce.

(1) I’ll try and get a photo and post it tomorrow. I’m not sure I have enough courage to open it up though! In the meantime I’ll try and describe it: Its almost but not quite an oval shape approx 6.5cmx5.5cm. Its cream in colour. The cover is held in with one central screw. There is no logo or other distinguishing marks.

(2) I’m not blaming Openreach for the state of the wiring, or trying to get them to do work for nothing, but I am getting frustrated about how to resolve this in a “legal” fashion yet at a reasonable cost. I’m the customer but appear to be caught between BT and the ISP.

(3)  Pardon my ignorance but what is a “SFI Broadband Engineering visit”?

(4) My BB ISP (Virgin) have made it quite clear that their policy would be to pass on the cost of ANY charge BT may make for a visit irrespective of the outcome of that visit in terms of fixing either the original bb fault and/or normalising the star wiring issue. You mention a cost of £160 but is that sum certain? Remember the ludicrous sum BT quoted me just for installing an NTE and so regularize the star wiring. I’ve been in business for many years, but I’ve never before been asked to take on an unquantified financial commitment in return for an uncertain outcome.

I think one of the problems is that ISP margins have become very thin in some product areas. I’m only paying £180 per annum for an up to 8Mb service (but getting 2-3Mb) with unlimited downloads (subject to the usual caveats). Swallowing the cost of just one BT visit is not economical for the ISP.

[razpag]

1) It sounds like a fully legit BT junction box

2) I think you'll be covered for the cost of work

3) Special Fault Investigation Broadband Engineering. Tasks built to remedy 'No synch', 'Slow speeds', 'Int synch' etc etc ......

4) It wont be BT visiting, but Openreach. We own the wiring and Master Socket from the exchange throught to the premises. If you have a fault on your extention wiring, at the moment you have no legal way to isolate this extention as you don't have the NTE5 Master Socket. This is the angle I would be going from and demand an SFI visit via your SP.

[bbnovice]

Thanks for that razpag. I may try that with them tomorrow.

I understand the line you are taking over the "legality" of touching the extension wiring (and hope your stance is correct) although it does not quite tally with what BT told me today as I stated in my original post. 

I apologise if I’m appearing a bit frustrated but there is a back story also going on with the ISP regarding the actual BB fault which I didn’t include in my original post in order avoid complicating the issue.

The fault I have with the BB is that intermittently the SNR become unstable and the connection will either freeze or drop. I can see this by looking at the RouterStats graph I have running on my PC. Sometimes reconnection will be impossible for minutes or hours afterwards. Often when this happens you can hear loud noises on the line which stop if the router is turned off. Taking the phone off hook can often also start to make the SNR become very unstable. This has been happening for months now but recently has become more and more frequent.

The ex BT guy who looked at my wiring reckons its OK, but that there is a network issue, possibly a high resistance fault somewhere.

My ISP though seems to want  to focus entirely on my internal wiring which it can blame on me. They have not as yet asked BT to investigate the network  When I ask what the next step will be if my wiring comes up as clean, and they tell me that the symptoms I describe are indicative of a “port error” at the exchange. So why this focus on my extension wiring?

They seem reluctant to initiate any network checks. I’m biting my tongue and going along with them but its hurting!!

Perhaps I should post this aspect on the ADSL ISSUES part of the forum?

[razpag]

Are you sure this chap is 'ex BT' He seems to know very little, ie- the oval box which has been around for years is 99% one of ours. Plus, the internal star-wiring is the most likely cause of the SNR dips/poor performance, how can he tell by just looking that all is well with the installation ??

You NEED an SFI visit. Whether your SP passes on the charge is between you and them I'm afraid, but at the moment you have no legal demarcation point, and we have to ensure you do. 

[HPsauce]

Oval BT junction box? I'd love to see that photo.  
(not that it actually makes much difference in the long run)
ISP's concentrate on internal wiring because, statistically it's most likely. And to be BRUTALLY HONEST yours is a prime candidate.

Does the box look like this, which is quite normal?

[razpag]

Thats the very one I think (hope) the OP is talking about HP.

[razpag]

PS ..... there could well be an HR type fault on the line, but again, the SFI engineer would remedy that as well. Sorry for fast and short replies, am busy with other things as well as looking in on here.

[HPsauce]

Razpaq, you and I are probably coming at this from different directions.
I'm not a BT guy but I (dare I say) know a hell of a lot about phone systems and domestic wiring. (blame my corporate IT/comms background and many many years of "managing" BT  )
Personally I'd be prepared to "sort it out" if it were my wiring, leaving a relatively simple setup for SFI and/or ISP to investigate.
HOWEVER the OP has said he's not prepared to touch wiring even when he's allowed to.....

So, I'm likely to lose interest and what you advise is looking a very good option. 
His wiring is almost certainly a broadband disaster area. 

[razpag]

   @HP

I understand where you are coming from mate, I however can't really afford the luxury of giving out 'illicit' instructions, because of my professional role. We do both concur that, whatever the weather, the star-wiring is completely detrimental to DSL signals regardless of possible secondary 'HR disses'.

[HPsauce]

because of my professional role.

Absolutely. 

You sound like the sort of "man on the ground" that, as a BT customer we would hang onto (keep in touch with and look after) once we found you.

[razpag]

  I don't take much looking after neither HP. 

[bbnovice]

Here's the picture. The box is similar to the picture of the junction box posted previously but slightly different - ie there is no embossing on the cover around the central screw. The previous one looks identical to one my mother has next to her window.

 

[attachment deleted by admin]

[HPsauce]

Intriguing, not like any BT/PO box I've ever seen.
What's it like inside, a close-up photo of that would be of interest.....