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Author Topic: No internal test socket  (Read 10156 times)

brickmaker

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No internal test socket
« on: April 22, 2010, 10:47:53 PM »

As the relatively newbuild house has an external NTE I have no means of testing the line. Broadband download speed is around .2Mbps and keeps dropping out. I have been on to ISP ( Plusnet) and they say I must connect to the (non-existent) master socket for 24hrs for testing to rule out my internal wiring before they will look at their side. Where do I go from here?
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2010, 11:11:07 PM »

Hi,

And welcome, brickmaker.

You can always tell fibs.  Demon went one stage further at one time, and asked me to disconnect all phones before they'd investigate.  I called them back on the same line and lied aloud into the phone, "all phones are now disconnected", which they happily accepted...  :lol:

Seriously, resist that, you don't want to alienate your ISP.   If  you  post your line stats somebody on the forum may be able to comment, and may even be more helpful than your ISP would have been.  See:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php

- 7LM
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waltergmw

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2010, 11:13:10 PM »

Hi Brickmaker,

I don't believe this matter has yet been resolved re the external NTE, but I do know the question has been raised.
From a practical viewpoint, assuming you are familiar with a punch-down tool and have some spare phone cable or perhaps some Cat5e or Cat 6 cable, I suggest you make a careful note of the wire colours and terminal numbers first, then disconnect the internal house wiring. You could then re-connect a temporary cable to run indoors and attach a NTE5** to a short length. You could then use that test socket to run tests. Home plugs and an extension lead may be necessary if the temporary NTE5 site is too far from your computer.

** You can buy NTE5s but not BT versions as far as I'm aware from e.g.
http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=114

There are other solutions, particularly if you wished to install your own permanent test socket indoors.

If your test run makes significant improvement you will probably need to examine all your telephone sockets.

You could also try the 17070 Option 2 Quiet Line test. If that has any noise on the line you can report a telephone fault to your provider and leave the broadband question out of the conversation.

Kind regards,
Walter
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 11:16:34 PM by waltergmw »
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BritBrat

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2010, 08:49:57 AM »


** You can buy NTE5s but not BT versions as far as I'm aware from e.g.
http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=114



Kind regards,
Walter

You can also get them on Ebay and sometimes original BT sockets but I could not see any this time.

Also read what Tim69 said:
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,4124.msg98225.html#msg98225
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 10:48:08 AM by BritBrat »
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waltergmw

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2010, 09:07:03 AM »

Gentlemen,

Given that the "official" BT NTE is external, there should be no problem with whatever equipment you choose to use internally.
You will have to be careful not to cross the pair though.

Another solution could be to insert a two-gang Ethernet socket with one connected to the incoming pair and the other to the house distribution.
You could then insert a short RJ45 jumper between the two sockets normally or insert the RJ11 on the filter dongle in the incoming socket when testing locally.

Kind regards,
Walter
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2010, 09:31:41 AM »

I'm may be wrong, but I'm not completely sure we're answering the correct question here?

What the ISP seems to have requested is that the router be connected to the master socket (not the test socket).  Or so I assume, as they surely wouldn't be asking brickmaker to go without telephones for 24 hours?

The problem then becomes, I think, that there is no 'master socket' at all (an external NTE isn't really a 'socket', is it), yet it still appears in call-centre support-scripts.  Our challenge would be to fix the broken scripts, or to find a way around them.  That's why I (half) jokingly suggested lying, or that we just try to help out on the forum without involving the ISP.
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waltergmw

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2010, 10:01:25 AM »

@ 7LM,

I think your statement is probably correct.
However I had approached the problem from a practical viewpoint (as so many difficulties seem to stem from poor internal wiring).

I believe there is a good case for including a test socket type of device to isolate all internal wiring easily so that end users can rapidly do a "binary chop" test to demonstrate if a problem is internal (users responsibility) or external (ISP and then BT O responsibility).

I am also lazy in not wishing to grapple with umpteen different ISP fault teams of varying nationalities and qualities before I really have to !

Kind regards,
Walter
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BritBrat

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2010, 10:44:29 AM »

^ I agree keep it simple.

I would install a master socket with all the components removed as Tim said, after all he is a telephone engineer and should know what he was talking about.

As for not having a phone for 24hrs is plain stupid, what if you had an emergency fire or something!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 10:50:57 AM by BritBrat »
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waltergmw

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2010, 02:22:21 PM »

@ Britbrat,

Perhaps it's just a matter of choice as to whether Brickmaker feels comfortable with either solution. Given that Brickmaker seems to be just at the start of his / her broadband career, I had added the Ethernet option as that might possibly be less daunting than cutting all the components from the internals of a NTE5.

There can be little doubt that this subject needs a proper resolution.

Kind regards,
Walter
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brickmaker

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2010, 05:06:10 PM »

Thanks Guys. With my limited knowledge it looks like I will have to get a professional to deal with this.
One final question. I have told that disconnecting the orange bell/ringer wire may help. If I do this is it likely to have any adverse effects elswhere. (I havent got any old fashioned phones with bells if that helps!)
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BritBrat

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2010, 06:47:37 PM »

I don't know about Orange but make sure it is number 3.

Anyone could have put any colour in any terminal, dont cut it so short that you can't put it back.

And no it wont affect any modern phones without bells.

If wired correctly it looks like it should be orange (Orange with White Bands)
http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephone/uk_telephone.html
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 06:51:41 PM by BritBrat »
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2010, 07:19:24 PM »

Yes, you should disconnect the ring wire if it is connected But - the reason for my italics -  according to this:  http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm#externalNTE , the ring wire isn't connected in the first place at the external box.  Can anybody confirm if that's the case?

If the ring wire is not connected at the external box, and you don't have any internal master sockets, then disconnecting it from the remaining sockets will make very little - if any - difference toi the performance of your line.

Also, do try plugging a phone every socket in the house to confirm it works.   Builders are famous for messing up phone wiring, and if any of the sockets don't work for a phone then the line will be hopelessly imbalanced which could mess up ADSL a treat.  I'd also go a step further and unscrew every socket to make sure it's not a master  Builders have been known to fit multiple masters by mistake, which does no real harm to the phones but, again, could mess up ADSL.

I still think you should post you stats before paying for help, though it's your choice.  If we can see your stats we can at least advise you as to what kind of speed you should expect to achieve, even if we don't manage to help you achieve it.  See http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php


- 7LM
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Tim69

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2010, 01:38:24 PM »

Hi Everyone.
                       The problem with external NTE (XNTE) is the lack of an internal test socket. Many ISPs are not happy about this and I fail to see why the XNTE should have differed from Network Interface Devices (NID) used in many other countries. These contain a socket into which it is possible to connect a telephone so the end user can disconnect their internal wiring and tell if they have a network or internal fault (in the U.S, this is a RJ11 plug and socket. You unplug your internal wiring and plug in a phone)  However the Openreach XNTE does not have this facility so what is to be done?.
 
   IMO the best answer is the modified NTE-5. As has already been said all the internal wiring belongs to the homeowner and they are free to fit whatever they like in the way of sockets, the modified NTE-5 then provides for a filter faceplate and all the advantages of filtering on the first socket.  
  
     Any NTE-5 may be used for this, and its very easy to remove the ring cap, out or service resistor, and overvolt protection from it (all these are provided in the XNTE) fitting a link for the ring line from the XNTE is perhaps a bit fiddley, but it should be done so that the test socket has all the normal functions and avoid any problems should a ring test be carried out with a phone that requires a ring line (still many more than people think)  
  
     So the ideal installation would be an XNTE, with the first socket a modified NTE-5, a filter faceplate then feeding the rest of the internal wiring. 
 
   Just to add that the ring line connection at the XNTE is filtered  in the XNTE  so the short run from to the NTE-5 will not upset broadband
 

      
  
    
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 01:40:55 PM by Tim69 »
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not/einstein

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Re: No internal test socket
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2010, 10:01:43 PM »

As the relatively newbuild house has an external NTE I have no means of testing the line. Broadband download speed is around .2Mbps and keeps dropping out. I have been on to ISP ( Plusnet) and they say I must connect to the (non-existent) master socket for 24hrs for testing to rule out my internal wiring before they will look at their side. Where do I go from here?
I have heard a rumour that BT in some areas are scrapping the external nte`s.......................
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