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Author Topic: UNLIMITED internet ?!  (Read 5536 times)

neos2k1

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UNLIMITED internet ?!
« on: July 15, 2007, 10:00:11 PM »

 Hi all,

 I have a question to you all .. is there any UNLIMITED internet in UK ? (whitout FUP, capping, all the mambo jambo limit stuff). Can you tell me some ISPs that doesn't have FUP or shaping ? I've come from a place where for 20 USD I had download speed up to 50Mbps inside the country and 4 Mbps outside the country (fiber optic).
 There was no capping or shaping .. you paid for those speed and they didn't care if you use them to download the hole internet on your HDD or just send an email once in a while. That was the service you paid for.
 Thanks.

 @kitz  .. very nice job with this website.  keep up the good work!  ;)
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kitz

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2007, 01:57:02 PM »

Hi and welcome.

I try and keep track of which ISPs do what (for residential accounts) and keep a list of them here
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/caps.htm

atm I think theres really only Be* where you can get what would be considered a true unlimited connection.

Theres also a couple of alternatives - I believe some of the Enta resellers offer a true unlimited at a cost.   Then theres some business accounts which do.. for eg Zen.
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]grimm[

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2007, 08:03:30 AM »

I just signed up for Be* and at least as of 29/8/07 they also have a FUP in place.  I actually signed up for them based on your table as they seemed to be the only real broadband provider without a FUP, but I think the table should be updated.  It seems that there is no provider in the UK with acceptable speeds that provides a service that is not subject to a FUP.

https://www.bethere.co.uk/fairusage.do
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kitz

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2007, 09:52:00 AM »

Quote

What about excessive network usage?
If it’s felt that any Be member’s Internet activities are so excessive that other members are detrimentally affected, Be may give the member generating the excessive web traffic a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, should the levels of activity not immediately decrease after the warning, Be may terminate that member’s services.

Last updated on 29.08.07


Thank you for pointing that out to me.  I will update the page asap with the info.  :)

That page is currently under review and will be changing in the coming period as part of a much larger project to change the way in which information is displayed.


>> they seemed to be the only real broadband provider without a FUP,

afaik they still are about the only ISP that has never invoked a FUP/CAP on any of their (home) customers.
They have many users who continue to download 100's of GB per month
As their network gets more busy and more users come onboard I suppose they have to put something in place to protect it.

>> It seems that there is no provider in the UK with acceptable speeds that provides a service that is not subject to a FUP.

Nope thats about it now - there are far too many ISPs  that say "Unlimited" in big letters where the word unlimited is just a few GB before you hit a FUP.  :(

Although Be still is probably the best bet for heavy usage, if at some point they do actually invoke the FUP, then that only leaves the business type products that some ISPs offer.

[page now updated]
« Last Edit: October 09, 2007, 10:01:03 AM by kitz »
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]grimm[

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2007, 02:05:56 AM »

They also changed their prices two days ago so it is now 14 for Be Value, 18 for Be Unlimited, and 22 for Be Pro.
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mr_chris

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2007, 02:42:52 AM »

They also changed their prices two days ago so it is now 14 for Be Value, 18 for Be Unlimited, and 22 for Be Pro.

Wow :o thats quite a reduction! Used to be £24 for Be Unlimited and £40 for Be Pro - can't remember what Be Value was before.

I'm seriously tempted now lol :-\
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Chris

kitz

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 01:39:37 AM »

>> They also changed their prices two days ago

Thanks for that - I got prior notification from them on the 10th that they were about to do a web and product refresh/reduction and I changed the info in the database for the prices that display on ISP price list

However the "caps" page all has to be updated manually and is undergoing a major revamp atm, hence it looking a bit ugly and the nasty red stuff at the top.

I'm still collating information for caps page which will have a completely different format and contain (or at least hopefully will by the time its done) a bit more information specifically relating to caps and FUPs.   Just got a few more bits of info to do / get  before the new style page is launched. :)

However quite often it is user experience and feedback that helps with information that I output - therefore I'm always very grateful when someone points out any changes :)

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guest

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2007, 04:39:16 PM »

Be/O2 might seem unlimited but I don't believe it is unless you live in London/Manchester.

Contention within the UK is barely noticeable right now but once again everything transatlantic is grinding to a halt (if you live outside London/Manchester). I'm serious - I've just been downloading a manual at 9kB/sec on a line synchronised at 18.8Mbps! I can't remember the last time I could only get 9kB/sec but it was more than 6 years ago that's for sure  ;D

In case any of you are unaware, Be/O2 use BT's LES (LAN extension services) for backhaul from exchanges. If you are outside London or Manchester then you will then be routed via the odious Level3 and there you will stay for 95% of routes. Be/O2 don't seem to be upgrading their Level3 transatlantic transit so given Level3's "least cost" routing policy you may as well be capped. Be is also RoutedEthoA rather than PPPoA which is "interesting" at times.

Oh and the Be FUP has been applied at least 5 times to my sure and certain knowledge. You'd have to go quite a long way "north" of 500GB/month to get noticed though. That WILL change rapidly I believe, but O2 need to end the Be Unlimited "brand" first as I suspect even the ASA would consider they were taking the proverbial   ;) I don't expect Be to exist for new customers come January 2008.

PS -  hi Kitz, hope you're still well? I'm marginally less mad than the last time we chatted  :P

PPS - if any of you do go to Be/O2 then for heavens sakes don't get multiple IPs. They won't be in any sort of block and frankly the Speedtouch 780WL firewall/IDS can't cope very well with lots of unrelated IP addresses rather than say a /28 block. To be quite honest the Speedtouch 780WL isn't suitable for the default Be service as heavy interleaving + wireless (WPA encryption) does cause the box to overheat.
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guest

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2007, 09:11:04 PM »

Oh just in case you're thinking Be/O2 are "cheap" in terms of the transit they buy - they aren't. As far as I am aware Be (not O2) have in excess of 3Gbps transatlantic transit with Level3. 50,000 ADSL2+ customers eat that up faster than you can imagine - if you are having difficulty imagining this then here's a more manageable figure :

My connection downloads at roughly 100MB per minute. Yes that's a full CD in 6.5 minutes and a DVD (4GB) in forty minutes or so. Edit - I think I once calculated the maximum theoretical monthly download I could manage and it was around 4TB (terabytes - a terabyte is 1000 gigabytes or so). So I could download thousands of DVDs a month - anyone think its unlimited or likely to remain so on that basis?

Now until copyright laws become more reasonable and local caching of content is permitted things are only going to get worse.

PS - I know of one person downloading in excess of a terabyte per month. Be haven't said anything to him in the last 9 months. Make of that what you will.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 09:45:35 PM by rizla »
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kitz

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2007, 10:51:09 PM »

>> That WILL change rapidly I believe,

I dont disagree with you on that, I dont see how they can continue when they primarily seem to be attracting the heavies :/

>> Be Unlimited "brand" first as I suspect even the ASA would consider they were taking the proverbial 

hmmm too many ISPs already tend to get away with it.  All the "big names" are at it now, whats so different about Be?   
Take for eg Virgins "Unlimited" which limits you to 350MB on a single night before it throttles you is hardly unlimited is it?  OK 350MB may seem a lot to some people but by doing it on a night basis its so easy to do a load of updates at once and suddenly wonder why your connection grinds to a crawl.  The Virgin forums are a mess right now with people experiencing "Unlimited" dial up speeds.

>>  don't expect Be to exist for new customers come January 2008.

That would be sad and I truely hope not.  Ok so their CS perhaps isnt the best, but they were the first to be brave enough to dabble into the realms of adsl2+.  Must admit I was a bit peed off when they pulled out of upgrading my own exchange after the takeover by O2

>>  I'm marginally less mad than the last time we chatted 

oooh noo you mean youre actually bordering sane now?
sheesh that could make things pretty boring in comparison :D
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guest

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2007, 11:26:40 PM »

The problem with the "brand" (Be Unlimited) is that IIRC it is also a Ltd company name - companies house website is closed now so I can't check. Advertising "unlimited" as we all know is entirely possible to get away with when you supply nothing like "unlimited". Naming your company like that - well what do you think?

The Be brand is dead kitz. Stone dead. All their marketing has basically failed and I'm not surprised. When I think of Be I think of a pink asterisk. I have no idea what that asterisk is meant to mean and nor do I know anyone who does actually know. I'm a customer so if I have no clue then the brand doesn't exist in marketing terms.

Like I said on TBB I saw Harry (one of the odious royals) singing his head off for the national anthem at the England-France rugby game. He was wearing an England top with the O2 logo clearly visible. Same network, same staff (networks) and soon to be the same support staff (the Bulgarians are getting the chop - and they know it). Why throw money down the tubes - you're never going to turn Be into the "business" arm of O2 (think Sky/UKOnline as a comparison) and the brand is worthless really.

O2 services (despite being marketed as 20Mbps) are identical to Be. I'm not sure about the 8Mbps service as that's possibly partly an IPStream service. The Be version (Be Value) is frankly a superb product IMHO - 8Mbps downstream and 1.3Mbps upstream. That sort of service should be ROCK-SOLID for anyone within 3km (line length) of the exchange (LLU'd obviously) and at the price it is a steal. Sadly I think that might be the problem with the Be/O2 products - the cost.

ADSL2+ (and the DMT Tool) was a total revelation to me. I skipped 8Mbps ADSL on BT as there was sod all point (as you know). When you have the much-vaunted Zen saying to you that 200ms latency on an idle ADSL line is "normal" then tis time to try something different.

At the moment I think that (if you want to change your CAPS/FUP page) you could say that :

Be have applied the FUP on several occasions. It does not appear that usage less than one terabyte/month is likely to attract attention as of 09/07. It should be noted that Be no longer run their own network as O2 own them, therefore O2 policies may impact on Be users in future.

Oh and of course the Jesus Phone arrives on O2 in November. Rapid expansion rarely keeps existing users happy IME. Not that I care now :P

Kitz - support is currently WAY WAY worse than Tiscali. If you are on Be then you have more chance of a visit from your god/gods than from an Openreach engineer. Really it is about as dire as it could get - the saving grace (so far) is that Be's execrable marketing doesn't work* If it did then all I can say is "ouch". I expect a lot of "ouch" shouts in the next three months (O2/iphone/etc) frankly.

*I can tell you all (from invoice numbers) that Be have acquired 17,000 customers in the last 8 months. Edit - and Brett has probably banned most of them from the Be forums  ::)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 11:30:29 PM by rizla »
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kitz

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2007, 11:44:05 PM »

>>  When I think of Be I think of a pink asterisk. I have no idea what that asterisk is meant to mean and nor do I know anyone who does actually know.

Me too...  that and the stupid faces imposed on the dancing asterisks :lol:

>> Kitz - support is currently WAY WAY worse than Tiscali.

Gawd that is saying something:( 
Ive spoken to Be* a couple of times, and they seemed ok... must admit it wasnt about a fault though.
TT Support is about the worst Ive ever come across

>> and Brett has probably banned most of them from the Be forums 

Dont think you can get access unless youre a be customer,  Ive tried a couple of times in the past out of curiousity.
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guest

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Re: UNLIMITED internet ?!
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2007, 12:09:43 AM »

You can't get access now. You could when Be/O2 were rolling out to new exchanges - just pretend to be a customer on that exchange. Brett and Louise fawned over them while ignoring the fact that most of the rest of the world was less accessible than in the days of carrier pigeons - well they did prior to me getting [censored] off with the pair of them wittering on about "new pipes" (like I'm a muppet who can't read a tracert?) and losing my temper (you've seen it before). After that I have no idea as I was banned. I can say that I found little of interest on the Be Forums.

The Bulgarian staff really do try their best. However I don't believe that until I played ticket tennis with them last week that anyone had ever explained migration to them. Also they seem to be (understandably really) under the impression they work in Bulgaria for a Spanish company (telefonica) so the UK regulator can go swivel. Once I explained the reason that GC22 came in - and the cost that BT used to charge for a reprovide - they got the whole system immediately. They are decent honest people but the accents and language are always going to be issues - eg you can't use anything other than "dictionary English" in a ticket as it could be misunderstood (no problem other than remembering to do it), however a combo of my accent and theirs means phone convos are pointless.

You won't get an Openreach engineer unless you agree your card can be debited in advance though - I think that is still the current situation, but obviously I'm not all that interested now :)


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I know it wasnt the full expletive but you know what I mean ;)
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 12:19:08 AM by kitz »
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