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[dazzactl]

I have had a couple of month of annoying calls to BT India without success, so I am glad that I found this web forum.

From the advice given I have changed from the BT Home Hub to Netgear DG834Gv3, but I am worried that I not going to see any benefits because the "Actual IP thoughput" has not increased.  Refer to stats below:

http://speedtester.bt.com/

IP profile for your line is -              BTHH =1000 kbps                      Netgear = 1000kbps
DSL connection rate -                    450 kbps(UP-STREAM)               Netgear = 450kbps
                                                      2800 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)       Netgear = 3300kbps

(note the 2800 speed is after a reset of the Home Hub - about half a day later the speed normally drops to 1600kbps - the NetGear modem surprised me as after half a day it increased from 3000 to 3300).

Line Attenuation Down-Stream has improved from 49-50 to 46-47 and the SNR margin is down to 3 from 6-10.

Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 928 kbps.  This is confirmed by various other sites (speedtest.net / auditmypc / thinkbroad).  Note that I had seen the speed limited to below 500kbps on some tests despite the IP profile measure at BT.  This drop off is not occuring with the Netgear equip.

Question 1: Is the Down-Stream the optimal speed for my connection given my Line Attenuation and SNR Margin readings?

Question 2: Is the IP Profile determined with reference to the Down-Stream speed and the number of errors encountered on the faulty line and/or faulty HomeHub?

Question 3: Will the IP Profile and actual IP throughput increase in the next couple of days (i.e. every three days) until it reaches the best position between speed and errors?

Question 4: I think that Interleaving is turned off at the moment (according to Telnet stats "avalanche" test).  Should I have Interleaving on or off? Note I use this service for torrents and video/audio streams and not for gaming.

Now that I have changed to Netgear, I am stuck wondering if I can still use the BT BroadBand Talk service.  People may dislike the service but I think it great that I have not been charged for a single call since the service started (BT finally get one wrong that is in my favour  ).

Question 5: Can I link the Home hub phones to the NetGear router?

I also tried out that DMT tool v8.09.  It did not seem to like the DG834Gv3 equipment. 

Question 6: Have I missed something or is there a different DMT program?

[roseway]

Hi, and welcome.

1. Your downstream connection speed of 3300 kbps is reasonably in line with your attenuation. You might be able to squeeze a little more from your connection by giving some extra attention to your internal connections and wiring. See http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/lowSNR.htm for some suggestions.

2. The IP profile is determined by the downstream sync speed. See http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm (scroll to the bottom of the page) for a table showing how they relate.

3. After your sync speed has increased (as yours has) your IP profile should increase after three days or a bit more, so long as the sync speed remains at that sort of level. Unfortunately, although it takes three days for the IP profile to rise, it falls immediately if you get a lower connection speed. If you continue to sync at about the present level, but the IP profile fails to rise after 3-4 days, then you may have a stuck profile and will need to contact your ISP to get it unstuck.

4. Interleaving should be applied automatically if your connection is unstable (rather frequent connection drops). If your line is fairly stable but you want it to be even more so, then I suppose that you could ask your ISP to have interleaving switched on but you may have trouble making them understand (most people seem to want it switched off because they're gamers). I would be tempted to leave it to the automatic process.

5. I'm afraid I don't know anything about the HH phones, so can't comment.

6. I don't believe that there is a version of DMT which works with the DG834G. Version 8.x works with DG834GT but not G unfortunately, because the 834G firmware doesn't have the necessary adslctl commands.

[kitz]

Hi and welcome

Roseways done most of the hard stuff - just a couple of comments.


>> Question 5:

Ive linked routers in the past so I can get facilities from both (in fact have 2 routers hooked up right now).  The only thing I would recommend if youre doing this is turn off DHCP on both routers, and statically assign IP addresses.  You'll need to change the IP address on the HH to make sure its in the same range as the Netgear.   One thing Im not sure about though is how it affects the talk phone side though Im afraid.  Try it and see

[mr_chris]

Hmm

I wouldn't say it's necessary to turn off DHCP on both routers, at all.

Leave it switched on, on the router that's connected to the Internet. That way the correct gateway and DNS will be assigned to the LAN PCs.

You should switch it off, on the router that isn't connected to the Internet though.

[kitz]

You are correct that its not necessary on the Netgear, but you know I prefer static IP addressing anyhow, and find it easier to do it that way.

But since the 2 routers by default have different IP ranges - 192.168.1.254 (HH) and 192.168.0.1 (Netgear), youre going to have to change the IP addy on the HH anyhow to something like 192.168.1.xxx ?

[mr_chris]

Yep I know you do Wasn't trying to say you were wrong.. just trying to present a potentially easier option?

[Pwiggler]

hi dazzactl

i had a 'bt engineer' out last week to investigate my slow torrent problem and he said that bt are enabling interleaving on all accounts by default from now on.

i'm interested what speeds you are getting when grabbin torrents ... my max is still stuck at 7kBs (yeah ... dial-up speed!) because of bt's 'traffic shaping'.  all other downloading is ok.

after reading the sales pitch documents and ellacoya's web site on their traffic shaping machines (as directed from kitz's pages) and hour after hour researching my problem, bt still wont accept that they are shaping.  i spoke (for the 20th time) to one of their indian chappies again on friday who  didnt have a clue what traffic shaping was so i told him to go aks his supervisor what an ellacoya switch/router was.  he returned after 5 mins and said 'ahh very interesting .... but i think its your line which has the problem'  

after that i spoke to his supervisors supervisor who advised me to lodge a formal grievance against bt and gave me thier customer service headquarters address.

anyway .... i got another engineer coming out on wed to test my internal wiring !! (4 crying out loud)

paul

[dazzactl]

Thank you Kitz and Roseway for the welcome and advice.

  - a bit of relief the IP profile has improved from 1000kbps to 2500kbps.  This was in-line with the MaxASDL results (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm) with the Netgear reporting 3232kbps down-stream speed.   I guess that is reasonable for now.  I only hope that it remains that stable.  I have seen the SNR ratio increasing from time to time, but waiting three days for the service to pick up will mean that I won't benefit.

I think that I am on top of the internal wiring now.  I had a NTE5 Filtered Faceplate installed when the engineer visited and I am using an insulated cable to connect to the modem.

Kitz - I will try your suggestion for the BTHH router and phone connection.  I will give you an update as to how I get and whether the DHCP is an issue (albeit the easier option sounds better).

The only problem I have now is trying to convince BT that the Home Hub was defective and get a free replacement.  They are probably patting themselves of the back for finally giving me "Good Speed".  What  a bunch of muppets!!!

Pwiggler - can I suggest that you use "utorrent".  It always work best overnight.  I think the term is "throttling" applies here during the day.  It appears that BT is restricting all the P2P ports.  overnight the floodgates open (well at least as much as your line can handle  )

[Pwiggler]

hi dazzactl

i tried all the bittorrent clients on the market and they're all the same, even the 'new' azureus header encryption is throttled.

i used to get full 7 meg from 2am till 7ish but thats down the pan as well now.  newgroups are flovour of the month now, i get 1.5 meg from BT and 5 - 6.5 meg from astraweb (but i pay for astraweb).  i dont know whether nntp will be throttled eventually but it doesnt saturate the net like torrents.

Pwigg


 

[soms]

I have both a HH and a DG834. The Netgear is certainly better. I doubt the HH is defective, ours synced a good few hundred K slower than the Netgear would. I think it has been mentioned on the forums that the Home Hub uses a speedtouch chipset which is not very highly rated.

As for the VoIP calls, you will need something such as the BT Voyager 10V - which is basically a VoIP router which can be connected to an router. Product Info on BT site

I expect this item will have the RJ-11 phone jack line on the HH and other Voyager routers, into which a BT style PSTN phone can be connected using a supplied adapter. All you need is a DECT base station you can plug in, and then to register the Hub phone to the DECT station connected to the Voyager connected to the Netgear.

[dazzactl]

Hello Kitz - thank you for the following suggestion

Ive linked routers in the past so I can get facilities from both (in fact have 2 routers hooked up right now).  The only thing I would recommend if youre doing this is turn off DHCP on both routers, and statically assign IP addresses.  You'll need to change the IP address on the HH to make sure its in the same range as the Netgear.   One thing Im not sure about though is how it affects the talk phone side though Im afraid.  Try it and see

but I am having trouble.  Each time I try to do I seem to encounter a different issue but no result.  The BTHH does like the changes I suggest so generally I need to reset to the defaults.  While the Netgear does appear to recognise the BTHH.

Do you have an idiot guide to networking two routers?

I like to have wireless link between them.  Is this possible?

[kitz]

When Ive done this in the past Ive always used ethernet so dont have any personal experience of doing it via wireless.
I hooked the 2nd router straight into one of the ethernet ports on the back of the first. 
Turned DHCP off on the 2nd router
and assigned the 2nd router an IP address in the same range as the 1st router.

If youre using it by wireless then look see if your router has anything in it about wireless repeater settings (also known as Wireless Distribution System).

The routers that I have hooked up atm says the following

Voyager

This page allows you to configure wireless repeater feature for your wireless network.

To enable wireless repeater to connect to the Voyager 2100:

First, make sure your wireless repeater is switched-on and configured as per the manufacturer's instructions.
You now need to tell the Voyager 2100 about the presence of your new repeater.
Click Scan Now to search for wireless repeaters in the vicinity.
Tick Select for the repeater you wish to use.
Click Apply.

Speedtouch

Configuring WDS 
What is WDS

The Wireless Distribution System (WDS) allows you to extend the range of your wireless network by introducing one or more WDS-enabled devices into your wireless network.    
You can only establish WDS links with WDS enabled devices.

Accessing the WDS page

To access the WDS pages on the SpeedTouch™:

1 On the left menu, click Home Network.
2 Under Wireless, click the Access Point you want to configure for WDS.    
The Access Points names are of the following format: “WLAN: “ + Network Name, for example “WLAN: SpeedTouch123456.
3 Click Configure.
4 Under Pick a task... list, click Configure WDS.
SpeedTouch™ configuration

Proceed as follow:
1 Under Pick a task..., click Scan for wireless accesspoints.
2 The SpeedTouch™ prompts you that all associated stations will loose connectivity for a few seconds. Click OK.
3 The SpeedTouch™ lists the results in the Accessible Access Points table.
4 Select the Access Point to which you want to establish a WDS connection.
5 Click Apply.
6 Configure this Access Point with:
The same WEP key if WEP is enabled.
The same fixed channel.

I therefore assume that there would be something similar in the Netgear ?- unfort I dont have one here right now to check.

[soms]

The BT HH can SUPPORT WDS. It seems this allows the use of repeaters, but you can not use the HH as a repeater?

Open the web interface, go to Advanced, log in.

Configuration > Wireless > Repeater is the page you want.

It says the following:

"The BT Home Hub is compatible with wireless repeaters supporting WDS (Wireless Distribution System). Adding repeaters to your home network can help extend the wireless range of your BT Home Hub."

The Home Hub seems to want to detect another wireless router which is broadcasting, and then configure it as a repeater.

I have a netgear wireless router somewhere, will see if it has an option.

[soms]

The WGR614 v7 is a wireless router for use with cable modems or ADSL modems, networks etc and I imagine is very similar to the DG834G in the sense of its wireless hardware etc. There is no option to set up as a WDS.
tbh this isn't a suprise as one would normally purchase a repeater for such a use in the first place. As kitz says, you can disable DHCP, set an IP address, plug up via ethernet and your two wireless points are enabling access to the same network, internet connection etc. But a wireless to wireless link won't be possible it seems.