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Author Topic: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?  (Read 5922 times)

TheVoid

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Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« on: April 14, 2018, 09:50:15 AM »

Last year, I was with BT on Infinity 1 and I had the free speed boost. This meant I was getting around 75mbps pretty much all the time.

I then made the mistake of going to Sky in December... I came back to BT in Feb this year on Infinity 1, which I solidly get 52mbps downloads.

Yesterday, I decided to upgrade to Infinity 2. Today the order is complete, but only my upload speed has really changed - it's doubled. My download speed is a little faster at about 54mbps.


Why is it only 2mbps faster when last year I could get 75mbps? I contacted BT and they said I should wait for the line to settle, which I don't believe to be true. The upload speed doubled straight away, but not the download speed.

Any ideas? Here's my line stats, and I have already tried a restart of the hub with no change -

Downstream sync speed:
58.75 Mbps

Upstream sync speed:
20.00 Mbps

Data rate:
20.00 Mbps / 58.75 Mbps

Maximum data rate:
24110 / 60493

Noise margin:
15.3 dB / 6.2 dB

Line attenuation:
14.7 dB


Thanks
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re0

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2018, 10:17:45 AM »

Hi,

Welcome to the forum!

While BT consumer may be known for giving quite typical and canned responses (like many ISPs), in this case they are actually right.

The default SNR (or "noise margin") is 6 dB when on a new provision. In this case it also applies when changing your package as it will reset your Dynamic Line Management (DLM). In order to have achieved 75 Mbps, you were probably on a 3 dB SNR.

There is no set period of time before the DLM sets your line downstream to anything lower than 6 (either 5, 4 or 3 dB). If memory serves me right, anything lower than 6 dB will not be applied unless G.INP is active (I could be wrong, so someone please correct if necessary).

Refrain from rebooting the router too often or making any changes which will make the DLM think you have an unstable line (as this may prevent the DLM from adjusting your parameters). You can learn more about the DLM thresholds here: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm.

I think the best thing you can do is leave it alone and, as long as the DLM sees your line stable, it should eventually get there like it did before.

Just out of interest, what router has BT provided you with when you went back to them? And which router were you using before you switched to Sky?
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TheVoid

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2018, 10:54:01 AM »

I was using a BT Smart Hub the both times.

So is it common for no increase on day 1, but for it to gradually shoot up? The Upload was immediate.
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re0

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2018, 11:26:27 AM »

Your line will go as fast as it can at the default SNR margin of 6 dB after an upgrade, which in this circumstance is about an increase 3 Mbps on the downstream. The only reason why the upstream has doubled immediately is because it has a lot of spare margin to work with (it targets 6 dB, but it can achieve maximum speed at 15 dB in your case).

With some lines when upgrading package, whether that is going from 40 to 55 or 55 to 80 Mbps downstream, there can sometimes be little or no immediate improvement, or even in some cases you can receive less speed at the default SNR margin. This is because when package is changed at wholesale level it triggers a DLM reset. If the person had a lower target SNR (of 5, 4 or 3 dB) prior which meant they were at the top speed for their previous (slower) package then at 6 dB they may receive less unless the DLM intervenes to make positive changes.

So is it common? It's more down to a variety of factors including line length, quality and background noise on the frequencies that VDSL (FTTC) uses. As your line is unable to achieve max speed at 6 dB, there will always be room for improvement until the target SNR is set to 3 dB by the DLM if it determines your line is stable. Based on what you said in your initial post, this will likely happen but there is no time frame for it to happen.
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Bowdon

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2018, 08:21:38 PM »

It might increase when DLM finishes testing it.

I've seen someone on the forums changing between packages and their download speed was stuck on the previous package. It needed a phone call to fix.

I guess for now just watch and wait until DLM does its thing.
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re0

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2018, 08:29:07 PM »

I've seen someone on the forums changing between packages and their download speed was stuck on the previous package. It needed a phone call to fix.

In this case, the sync speed exceeds that of the lower tier package on both the downstream and upstream. So at least in this situation the wholesale product provision has been changed.

Did this other person on the forum have a stuck IP profile or were they still syncing at the lower tier speed? Or was there another factor that I missed?
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Ronski

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2018, 09:22:30 PM »

I'm not so sure it's as clear cut as that, re0 is assuming your on a Huawei cabinet, if so then given time the speed may increase as it drops the SNR to 3dB presuming the line can support it. If however you're on an ECI cabinet then your stuck at 6dB, although they are supposed to be trialling the lower SNR on ECI cabs.
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re0

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2018, 09:38:47 PM »

@Ronski: That is true. While it is an assumption, it is a faily GOOD assumption since @TheVoid switched from BT to Sky last December (which was only 4 months ago) and was receiving 75 Mbps as they stated. In theory, nothing should have changed significantly since then in regards to crosstalk, especially if it is a cabinet which has been enabled for a long time.

Of course, the assumption can only be good and accurate if the information provided is also accurate. But there is a good chance that with G.INP + 3 dB profile the line should be able to support quite near those speeds.

@TheVoid: Perhaps you could confirm which type of cabinet you are on (Huawei or ECI)? If you don't have an unlocked router to hand, you may need to go out and take a look at your cabinet and check this (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttc-cabinets.htm) to confirm.
EDIT:
Sorry that I missed this before. You can find some information here (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm) on how to look up your cabinet information. More specifically without an unlocked router, you can use CodeLook (https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm) and look up the information in your locality to find the vendor used in your cabinet. If you are not sure which cabinet you are on, you can use your number on the DSL Checker (https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html) to confirm.

Edit 1: Added another way to lookup the cabinet online.
Edit 2: Corrected sentence.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 10:24:02 PM by re0 »
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j0hn

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2018, 10:22:25 PM »

You can find your cabinet Vendor without leaving the house by following the guide here...

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm

It will will give you exchange and cabinet number. At the bottom of that page it shows you how to find your cabinet on codelook. Codelook will tell you if it's an ECI or Huawei.



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TheVoid

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2018, 10:42:42 PM »

It appears I am on a Huawei cabinet.

Not sure what else to do really apart from wait?
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re0

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2018, 10:56:35 PM »

It appears I am on a Huawei cabinet.
That's good. So it is possible to get 3 dB profile, providing your line is stable enough. It is very possible you had this profile before

Not sure what else to do really apart from wait?
Nothing, really. Just avoid doing things that could disrupt the DLM (such as turning off and rebooting the router too regularly).

I should note that in my case it took approximately a month before G.INP was enabled on my line. There's no telling how long it will take for you, but you won't see your SNR stepping until this is enabled.

Just out of interest, before I forget to ask, what the DSL Checker actually estimate for your line speed (Clean & Impacted for VDSL)?
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gt94sss2

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2018, 11:48:38 PM »

Last year, I was with BT on Infinity 1 and I had the free speed boost. This meant I was getting around 75mbps pretty much all the time.

I then made the mistake of going to Sky in December... I came back to BT in Feb this year on Infinity 1, which I solidly get 52mbps downloads.

Yesterday, I decided to upgrade to Infinity 2. Today the order is complete, but only my upload speed has really changed - it's doubled. My download speed is a little faster at about 54mbps.

As others have said, its probably due to the fact that your SNRM target has not yet reduced from 6dB and you have probably lost g.inp during the upgrade process as well.

However, can I ask what http://www.dslchecker.bt.com says for your line?

When I upgraded from Infinity 1 to upto 80MB due to the free speed boost, my download speed actually went down initially

Depending on what the checker says for your line, my advice is if this doesn't improve in 2/3 days, ask BT to arrange a free "boost visit" for your line on the basis that your speeds haven't improved as expected - its worth doing even if the engineer can't improve your speeds much/at all on the day - and you need to wait for DLM/INP to kick in as you're likely to benefit from it then

I did it via the BT forums as they had to manually arrange the speed boost for me as well as well, but they should do it by telephone as well - as an 'early life failure'.
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TheVoid

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2018, 01:35:48 PM »

As others have said, its probably due to the fact that your SNRM target has not yet reduced from 6dB and you have probably lost g.inp during the upgrade process as well.

However, can I ask what http://www.dslchecker.bt.com says for your line?

When I upgraded from Infinity 1 to upto 80MB due to the free speed boost, my download speed actually went down initially

Depending on what the checker says for your line, my advice is if this doesn't improve in 2/3 days, ask BT to arrange a free "boost visit" for your line on the basis that your speeds haven't improved as expected - its worth doing even if the engineer can't improve your speeds much/at all on the day - and you need to wait for DLM/INP to kick in as you're likely to benefit from it then

I did it via the BT forums as they had to manually arrange the speed boost for me as well as well, but they should do it by telephone as well - as an 'early life failure'.

How long did it take for you to get an increase?

So is my line currently being monitored then and will keep improving, or is this just talk by BT?

My stats are:

« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 01:38:49 PM by TheVoid »
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re0

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2018, 01:54:47 PM »

So is my line currently being monitored then and will keep improving, or is this just talk by BT?

Your line is always being monitored by the DLM (unless it is disabled, which is not done on FTTC), regardless of your ISP on any xDSL connection. It collects stats from your connection and adjusts the parameters according the to the set stability profile to give you the connection deemed "best" for your line.

It looks like you should be within your estimates once the DLM starts making positive changes.

When you initially had FTTC installed, did an Openreach engineer visit the premises and make any changes to your wiring/fit a new socket? If it not, you might want to check your wiring to ensure you're getting the best speed out of the connection. You can find some information here (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm) regarding how to improve broadband speed (ignore it just being listed for ADSL, since this still applies to VDSL).
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gt94sss2

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Re: Upgraded to Infinity 2 - No Speed Difference?
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2018, 03:01:03 PM »

How long did it take for you to get an increase?

My line was upgraded on 12/2/18. Within 2 weeks g.inp came back (though this period varies per line) and DLM started reducing in 1dB stages on 4 March. I had the boost visit after g.inp had come back but before the SNRM started reducing. I posted some of the history at the time here and now get 69MB

Quote
So is my line currently being monitored then and will keep improving, or is this just talk by BT?

All the lines are continuously monitored by Openreach's DLM system and things will improve as you have a Huawei cabinet. If you had an ECI one, things wouldn't be so positive.

If you want to see if BT will agree to a boost visit it has to be requested within 28 days I believe.
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