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Author Topic: Downstream Rate Drop  (Read 7087 times)

j0hn

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Re: Downstream Rate Drop
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2018, 08:48:31 AM »

Unrelated to the OP...

Viewing this thread on Chrome on 2 different Android phones completely freezes the browser. This even happens in incognito mode when not signed in. It's page 2 that causes Chrome to freeze.

Can anyone else with an Android phone running the Chrome browser try viewing page 2 of this thread and see if they get the same as me? Not sure if it's an attachment or something else that's causing it.
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kitz

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Re: Downstream Rate Drop
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2018, 09:16:05 AM »

Can anyone else with an Android phone running the Chrome browser try viewing page 2 of this thread and see if they get the same as me? Not sure if it's an attachment or something else that's causing it.

Seems ok here. 
Tried both viewing as guest and logged in.

S5neo

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ETA
Attachments seem ok here too.   Just opened them all for viewing.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 09:21:22 AM by kitz »
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jelv

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Re: Downstream Rate Drop
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2018, 09:41:39 AM »

I'm only seeing one page for this topic, but it displays OK using Chrome on Oreo.
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kitz

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Re: Downstream Rate Drop
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2018, 10:33:31 AM »

Quote
Shouldn't the Attainable rate be higher than the Sync rate? Or is it more complicated than that

Depends upon your current SNR Margin.  Target SNRM is 6.3dB, so if your SNRM deviates from 6.3dB then it will affect your max sync.   There's also a couple of other things that can affect this such as traditional interleaving due to RS overheads, but n/a in your case as you have G.INP.

Quote
It IS capable of the full 80Mb. Every line suffers from crosstalk though, and your line isn't any different.

To further expand on j0hns answer I show below something that happened on my line last night.
At 2am this morning my DSLAM had what may have been some sort of remote update/fix.  It forced all lines to disconnect.  My modem managed to resync before one of my FEXT distrubers did and note the effects it had on my line.

I sync'd at 78650 with an SNRM of 6.3dB.
A minute later one of my disturbers came back up.  Look what happened next to my line.
My SNRM dropped to 4.6dB and my max attainable sync speed immediately dropped to 73553.

That means if I were to resync now, then I would only get 73.5 Mbps.  Thus this particular crosstalker is costing me  5Mbps.   I do have others that I see from time to time.  Some are more, some are less.   You can always spot when they resync because your SNRM will momenatarily increase. 

My line is well capable of 80Mbps.. I sync'd at 80Mbps for >3yrs..  but as more people joined the cab it slowly eroded my max attainable of 110 Mbps down to more like 70Mbps



----------

PS

I'm not quite sure what they were doing - at spot on 1am I lost internet connectivity for a while and couldnt use the internet despite having sync.   I tried dropping my PPP session but couldn't get an IP address.   Then at ~2am it looks like it forced all lines to resync.

@B*cat & anyone else that's interested.   Note how I kept my increased upstream SNRM.  I suspect this is down to DSM which will have been calculated before my disturber came on board.   But look how nicely my SNRM is playing on this particular profile and no spikes.   You know how I've always maintained that I can't do anything to get rid of the oscillations and how they are always triggered by a remote reset of my line from the DSLAM end.

I'm beginning to wonder if its anything to do with one of the DSM profiles I may get allocated.   Which DSM profile I get will depend upon which of my disturbers are connected at the time that I resync.
Arggh  I want to type more on this,  the theory is there in the back of my head re Power profiles and I know what I want to say.. but communication fails and my fingers refuse to co-operate any more (its taken over an hour to type just this), so Im done with long posts for the day other than saying it may explain why if I resync myself I cant get rid of the crappy oscillations sometimes. 
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burakkucat

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Re: Downstream Rate Drop
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2018, 06:25:02 PM »

Re. Kitz' comment. If you hadn't drawn my attention to your SNRM plot I probably would not have made any deduction on the absence of the typical oscillations that you experience in such circumstances.

Whether it was cabinet work, work on the fibre back-haul to the fibre head-end exchange or work at the fibre head-end exchange, the timing, etc, has all the hallmarks of planned engineering works. The fact that all circuits terminated on the DSLAM were triggered to perform a re-train seems to suggest that there might have been a software upgrade during the service outage.

[wishful thinking]
Could G.998.4 have been rolled out to your cabinet's ECI M41?  :-X 
[/wishful thinking]
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kitz

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Re: Downstream Rate Drop
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2018, 11:25:34 PM »

Apologies to the OP for this being OT but I couldn't see an easy way to split the thread without making some replies nonsensical.   It was purely to show b4z an example of how FEXT affects a line that I posted my stats.    Then it was only because I did this... that I happened to notice the changes in my power profiles last night.

Re. Kitz' comment. If you hadn't drawn my attention to your SNRM plot I probably would not have made any deduction on the absence of the typical oscillations that you experience in such circumstances.

I appear to have picked up a different PSD mask with different power levels.  It is at this point I miss the demise of MDWS so you can see some stats which dont appear on DSLstats.  I've noticed for a while that since the advent of Dynamic Spectral Management (DSM) that on occasion users can be allocated different power profiles.    On certain profiles my line seems to behave better when it comes to my 'familiar' oscillations.   I've also noticed that users can be allocated higher power levels if they sync before their disturber comes on line and this profile will stick even when the disturber comes online until you next resync.     

What I was trying to say is that quite often lines (not just mine) can on occasion see a boost in power levels depending what disturbers are online at the time of EU's sync.   Past experience has taught me that if I resync now, then not only will I lose the increased sync speed from the SNRM, but I will lose my existing power profile and upstream power will reduce back down again.   

If it is the case that DSM controls your power profile (which by all accounts it should do... and awaiting any feedback from ejs) then that may explain why I can't seem to shift the oscillations unless its a remote sync which also knocks my disturber off line.



Quote
Whether it was cabinet work, work on the fibre back-haul to the fibre head-end exchange or work at the fibre head-end exchange, the timing, etc, has all the hallmarks of planned engineering works. The fact that all circuits terminated on the DSLAM were triggered to perform a re-train seems to suggest that there might have been a software upgrade during the service outage.

I can't see any evidence of a software update to the line card.   But this is the 2nd time in the past 2-3 weeks that I've lost some sort of (BTw) backhaul connectivity followed by a DSLAM initiated resync.   Whatever it is will cause internet interruption between the point of DSLAM and my ISP.  A tracert on both occasions stopped before I could reach my ISP yet I would have sync.   If I tried to force my router to do a PPP reconnect it would fail to pick up an IP and return 0.0.0.0.   It's my understanding from theory learnt in days of old that if it was an ISP failure you would at least be allocated with an internal BTw IP address even though your routing wouldn't go anywhere near the Internet this BT internal address would at least allow you to perform certain diagnostics such as reach the BT digital realm test sites*  The fact that I couldnt even pick up a BTw based IP leads me to think the point of failure was before the bRAS and therefore between the DSLAM and head-end exchange.   

Quote
[wishful thinking]
Could G.998.4 have been rolled out to your cabinet's ECI M41?  :-X 
[/wishful thinking]

Wishful thinking indeed.   G.INP is and always has been a 2 step process.   
1.) DSLAM configuration changes -   These are DLM profiles which are set on the DSLAM and not any f/w upgrade.
2.) EU DLM profile roll out which are applied to the individual line profile.    Historically on Huawei cabs & the botched ECI roll outs 1) always happens a few weeks/month before 2).


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*It's because BT use an internal IP that is in the same range as supposedly used by the CIA, that started conspiracy theorists down a rabbit hole.
I know for a fact that BTw has always used this specific range of IPs if for some reason you cant get internet connectivity to your ISP.   It was built like this since at least 2003 that I have seen, so that you can at least access the BTw digital realm for tests and start-up domains if connection to your ISP fails and the bRAS can't pass you on to your ISPrealm.
iirc AAISP RevK also confirmed this more recently.   But I definitely remember 10+ years ago when Plusnet had their Broadband plus accounts and BTw policing the central capacity EU numbers,  so that users would find themselves unable to connect to a PN central and end up on the BTw realm with one of their IPs. 
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burakkucat

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Re: Downstream Rate Drop
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 11:45:14 PM »

Apologies to the OP for this being OT but I couldn't see an easy way to split the thread without making some replies nonsensical.

And I have to echo your apologies, for I had a moment pondering how to respond and decided it would have to go OT, for the very same reason that you have stated.
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kitz

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Re: Downstream Rate Drop
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2018, 10:59:30 AM »

Well that didn't last very long.   :'(
 
My SNRM was rock steady nice straight line at 4.6dB for 30+ hrs without even a 0.1dB flicker. Zero oscillations.  Line was holding great at 78650 kbps. 

Until I got my usual morning spike of errors...  and then the DSLstats alert on my phone went crazy.  Yup today was one of the days when my CRCs decided to stick.     I had no alternative but to resync my modem whilst my cross-talker is online.  Now syncing at 72820 kbps and tiny oscillations are back. :(

I'm not sure what my Err/Sec total is as I'd not updated DSL stats to the latest pre-release version which gives a figure, but hopefully I managed to resync the line before too much damage was done..  looking at what data I do have the 14 mins before I could resync my modem produced circa 845 Err/Sec. 
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