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[re0]

@tubaman - One could only hope with TalkTalk... Expecting results for their consumer products, as steenamroo has experienced, is a lost cause.

@steenamaroo, I do actually have a suggestion for you...

If you're still in contract (which it seems you will be because you switched recently) with TalkTalk, you should request Minimum Guaranteed Access Line Speed (MGALS) from them. The MGALS should specify the 10th percentile speed for similar customers on the same service, at which point they must act to resolve this problem by raising it as fault or let you leave contract free if they have raised it to OR and they have found no fault and the line is at its max capability.

You have done your part, as a customer, by replacing their awful kit, changing filters, etc. Your line is clean and certainly capable of the full speeds as you have previously experienced. There's nothing really more that an ISP could expect you to do.

ISPs should be able to do a remote DLM reset (limited to 1000 circuits a day), though I do not know if TalkTalk have access to or use this yet. I would even consider calling their faults department and state that your line is underperforming because of a "fault" with their own TalkTalk router hardware and that you need them to reset the circuit's DLM after replacing it. As horrible as calling them sounds, you need to try a different avenue because the OCE's on the forum are not giving you straight answers or even providing real support in my opinion.

[steenamaroo]

Thank you for the suggestion, re0,
As much as the idea pains may, you may be right.

I do feel I can construct a strong complaint about the customer service here, or follow your approach, but I'm even wondering if it's worth it now.
If I leave well alone it seem there's a good chance speeds will return eventually, and it's less likely I'll be penalised in future, now that I have reasonable hardware.

Do you know, would MGALS be any different to the minimum figure I was quoted on sign up?
Unfortunately on sign up I was told to expect 55-75 with a minimum guarantee of 35.
I'm rounding from memory there, but it was certainly in that area.

Having been educated a little about the hardware, maybe it's best that I leave well alone?

[steenamaroo]

ISPs should be able to do a remote DLM reset (limited to 1000 circuits a day), though I do not know if TalkTalk have access to or use this yet.

This is a fair point too.
I mean they could simply tell me but, of course, they won't.

[re0]

Do you know, would MGALS be any different to the minimum figure I was quoted on sign up?

I cannot comment on whether the quoted minimum figure TalkTalk give you is based on MGALS, but it would probably be as a safe bet to cover themselves.

If you have any emails from them, it should state the conditions of when you signed up and what speeds they expect/guarantee minimum for you. If you have not retained that, then perhaps you will need to ask regarding the MGALS.

The chances are that the DLM will steadily improve the line parameters without a DLM reset, providing there is no fault (which I believe is the case). Unfortunately, the process can be slow and it will only occur if the line is performing within thresholds defined for its profile.

What are your errors looking like at the moment? Use "adsl info --stats" and copy the "Since link time" stats so we can estimate the error rate at the moment.

[steenamaroo]

I do still have the email from when I signed up.
I didn't realise that at the start of this thread but I found it last night. That's where they quoted the minimum as 35 or thereabouts.

I just went to check error stats only to find out that my link reset about two hours ago.
I'm aware of no reason that it should have, so that's very annoying.

It's showing 155 FEC up and 106 FEC down for the previous day - Everything else is zero.

Over the last 2:40 it's showing
-----------down--------up
FEC:      4      5
CRC:      0      4
ES:      0      4

[re0]

Hmm, too bad there is no way that I know of to enable Telnet on your device. It would make logging and looking into your problem so much easier.

Perhaps you could provide your full stats from the CLI and paste them here (and use "Insert Code" formatting to put into its own box)? You may not be seeing many CRCs/ES/SES because of the application of interleaving or G.INP.

[steenamaroo]

Sure, I can do that.
I believe interleaving is disabled but G.Inp is enabled.

Code: [Select]

xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 32786 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90929 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 48997 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 17.3 15.2
Attn(dB): 14.4 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.5 5.7

VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 195 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 12 16
S: 0.0000 0.3781
L: 13117 5374
D: 4 1
I: 208 127
N: 208 254
Q: 4 0
V: 2 0
RxQueue: 136 0
TxQueue: 34 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 31 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 8.0000 0.0000
L: 32 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0

Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 2427716
OHFErr: 0 4
RS: 302590064 3134782
RSCorr: 4 5
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 599844 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 4798256 0
RSCorr: 4 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 31616 121
rtx_c: 156 3602
rtx_uc: 72197 135404

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 10 31
minEFTR: 48986 19997
errFreeBits: 159227216 426790084

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 907864209 0
Data Cells: 21731760 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 10 4
SES: 10 0
UAS: 71 61
AS: 9636

Bearer 0
INP: 51.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 3.98
OR: 0.01 64.22
AgR: 49248.62 20063.54

Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 0.00
INPRein: 2.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 63.75 0.01
AgR: 63.75 0.01

Bitswap: 2/2 0/0

Total time = 1 days 3 hours 32 min 5 sec
FEC: 210 160
CRC: 538 4
ES: 10 4
SES: 10 0
UAS: 71 61
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 7 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 2
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 5 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: N/A
Latest 1 day time = 3 hours 32 min 5 sec
FEC: 104 5
CRC: 538 4
ES: 10 4
SES: 10 0
UAS: 28 18
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 7 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 1
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 106 155
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 43 43
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 1
Since Link time = 2 hours 40 min 35 sec
FEC: 4 5
CRC: 0 4
ES: 0 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Retr: 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

[burakkucat]

Last Retrain Reason:   1

That is what has been recorded as the reason for this morning's re-train . . .

Now where are those posts, the ones with the list of codes? Ah, yes. Here's one by asbokid and one by roseway. 

[steenamaroo]

Heh, thank you burakkucat.
I had been there before you.
There seemed to be mixed reports about reason:1.

I admit, I didn't look much deeper after seeing this post.

btw retrain reason 1 isnt always DLM as my last resync was a manual one by me powering down.  (Not relevant to this topic, but I just happened to spot it during that cmd and recall you talking about this recently with someone else).

[steenamaroo]

Looks like DLM took a nosey last night after just over 4 days up time.
I'm not entirely sure what it did but I've attached --stats before and after.

[re0]

Hmm, looks like G.INP was deactivated on the upstream which would explain the drop in attainable on the upstream. I didn't even know that OR still had upstream G.INP enabled (on Huawei cabinets, of course).

Skimming through, I cannot see anything untoward or otherwise worth of a mention (bar the above). Though the formatting of the document is not making it easy for me.

[j0hn]

I didn't even know that OR still had upstream G.INP enabled (on Huawei cabinets, of course)

It's disabled by default on the upstream.
However if the upstream has a high amount of ES, and the modem is recognised as capable of upstream retransmission, then DLM will apply it.

If the upstream remains "noisy" then it will keep G.INP.
However for most lines DLM removes it after a few days.

I've only had G.INP on the upstream once, for a few days. My line very much benefited from it. It's unfortunate G.INP Mk2 is such a fudge.

[steenamaroo]

So this would be considered a good thing; The first step?

[steenamaroo]

Well folks,
I'm very happy to report that my line reset this morning at 19,999 and 79,999.
info --stats shows Retrain reason 1 and SNR down 7.9.

I had to reboot the router to actually see that throughput but now that I have everything looks great.

This follows a PM on Thursday, where I asked one of the OCEs to find about whether or not TalkTalk can avail of the recent OpenReach DLM reset changes .
He said he'd ask the network team.

Being that the reset took place at 9/10 am, I guess those guys work Sundays?

Thank you once again to everyone who helped on this thread.
It's very much appreciated!

[j0hn]

So Talktalk are doing remote DLM resets, great to know.

There's a couple members of this forum who will likely attempt this with Talktalk now.