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Author Topic: High Interleaving  (Read 2814 times)

V_R

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2018, 01:44:27 PM »

Nice one, DLM seems to work much faster on some lines. Back when I was with an old ISP I had G.INP and dropping to 5dB (was all I needed to hit full speed) it took an age to change. You got both within two days! Go figure, maybe one of the more knowledgeable guys can shed some light. Or is it simply luck?


E: What modem are you using now btw? Still the VMG1312-B10A? I wonder if that would make a difference on my line....
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 01:47:21 PM by V_R »
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.Sam. on MDWS.

Zen Internet via HG612 with Asus RT-AC86U running Merlin FW.

mbb

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2018, 12:47:32 PM »

Had a resync today after capping my line and im back to fast path. Great seeing 11ms ping. think i may leave it till tomorrow to lift the cap. Hopefully g.inp wont be to far behind

thanks for the help guys
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KingJ

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2018, 12:57:57 PM »

E: What modem are you using now btw? Still the VMG1312-B10A? I wonder if that would make a difference on my line....

Yep, still on the B10A at the moment. I'd been using the B10D for a couple of months, including during the capping period, but switched it out with the B10A a short while ago, but before G.INP was applied.

Given that the B10A has the better chipset and noise filtering, I wanted to see if it would make a difference on my line. I stayed away from it in the past because I couldn't find a cheap one on eBay and also it doesn't support Baby Jumbo Frames (except via an unknown CLI command).

The B10A definitely seems to perform better on my line - without any DLM changes, I had an increase in sync and a decrease in error rates.

Once DLM has finished performing the xdB changes I might switch back to the B10D - if the line is syncing at max, with G.INP then I don't need the extra boost the B10A gives me and I can also get Baby Jumbo Frames working again.

(If anyone does know the rumoured CLI command to enable Baby Jumbo Frames on the B10A though, i'd much appreciate it!)
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V_R

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2018, 01:50:21 PM »

I see, i quite fancy trying something to replace the HG612, it seems fine, but it is old now and wonder if It could do with being replaced....
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.Sam. on MDWS.

Zen Internet via HG612 with Asus RT-AC86U running Merlin FW.

KingJ

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2018, 01:57:40 PM »

I see, i quite fancy trying something to replace the HG612, it seems fine, but it is old now and wonder if It could do with being replaced....

I did have a HG612 before. It was reliable and did a good job - and indeed it was the B10D that I replaced it with as I thought it might be slowly failing.

If you can find a cheap VMG1312-B10A on eBay (under 30) I say go for it! The ISP branded ones are easy to reset and upgrade.

Unfortunately from reading around here, there's often no 'best' router/modem for all lines. Different modems are better on different lines. Generally, the better chipset and noise filtering on the B10A works well for most people, but others find that other modems (and cables!) work better for them. Which is another reason why I wouldn't suggest paying a large amount for one - if it doesn't work any better and you end up switching back to your old modem at least then it's not a huge (financial) loss.
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V_R

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2018, 02:02:04 PM »

Yeah that's what I'm thinking as this line is historically noisy....
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.Sam. on MDWS.

Zen Internet via HG612 with Asus RT-AC86U running Merlin FW.

burakkucat

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2018, 06:15:14 PM »

(If anyone does know the rumoured CLI command to enable Baby Jumbo Frames on the B10A though, i'd much appreciate it!)

Do you possess a copy of the ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A CLI Reference Manual? If not, then please send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll send you a copy of the manual.
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KingJ

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2018, 11:01:08 PM »

DLM initiated resync again after 48 hours, dropping the SNRM target by 1dB to 4dB.

Downstream SNRM dropped from 5.4dB to 4.4dB.

Downstream sync increased 3.5Mbit from 73.8Mbit to 77.3Mbit.

Attainable is currently floating somewhere between 79 and 80Mbit which is promising. Hopefully if DLM decides to take me down to a 3dB SNRM target, i'll be syncing at or very close to 80Mbit on the downstream! If the 48 hour resync pattern continues, i'd expect it to kick in again sometime on Monday afternoon.

Is it roughly known what parameters DLM looks at when deciding to lower the SNRM target? At a guess I would think it would be looking at the number of retransmissions - and only lower the target further if the retransmissions aren't excessive?
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j0hn

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2018, 03:23:19 AM »

LEFTERS, ES, possibly rtx_uc.
We don't know to be honest, but I'd confidently guess the 1st 2.
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KingJ

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2018, 11:37:47 AM »

LEFTERS, ES, possibly rtx_uc.
We don't know to be honest, but I'd confidently guess the 1st 2.

Thanks for that, I appreciate that what parameters DLM uses is a bit of an unknown but i'm glad to at least have some inkling of what it could be using  :)

I've had one LEFTR spike to 10, but that was during yesterday's resync. Other than that, they've been 1 at most. Since the 4dB resync, i've only had them on the upstream and long periods without any.

Errored Seconds have remained low too, only really having any during resyncs.

G-Retransmit UnCorrected has remained solidly at 0, except for a spike to ~35k during yesterday's resyncs.

I'm hoping that overall, that looks quite good. It seems they only approach anywhere near 'bad' during resyncs which is quite probably to be expected? Fingers crossed therefore for 3dB on Monday afternoon!

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kitz

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2018, 11:54:03 AM »

It will definitely be Err/Secs and I strongly suspect LEFTRS. 
I did ask someone who would know what params DLM looked for on G.INP a few years ago although I didn't get solid confirmation.  I didn't get a denial either on LEFTRS if you get my drift, so may of that what you will ;)
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mbb

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2018, 10:31:04 AM »

Removed my line cap yesterday afternoon just over 48 hrs after getting a fastpath connection. Woke up this morning to 80ES/Hour on my line so i guess interleaving wont be to far away. fingers crossed for G.INP  :fingers:
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j0hn

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2018, 05:43:52 PM »

As you're with BT who use the Speed DLM profile, I think the ES threshold is 2880 a day, or 120/hour.

If you're on MyDSLWebStats is your top left traffic light amber or red?

Huawei cabs seem to favour interleaving over fastpath so I suspect it will apply interleaving at the current rate.

edit: just found you on mdws
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:48:52 PM by j0hn »
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BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin - minted on MDWS via DslStats

Ixel

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2018, 05:46:46 PM »

Speed profile is indeed 2880 ES per day unless you've had some downtime (as it's based on MTBE).
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KingJ

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Re: High Interleaving
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2018, 06:32:19 PM »

My line resycned again today after 2 days at the earlier than usual time of 09:14. Alas, MyDSLWebStats didn't notify me by email so it wasn't til later in the day that I noticed! (Edit: the MyDSLWebStats email eventually came through shortly after I posted at 18:41, but confirming the resync at 09:14. Must have been a delay on the email!)

A 3dB SNRM target has now been applied and i'm now syncing at 3.4-3.5dB on the downstream.

Downstream sync increased 2.6Mbit from 77.3Mbit to 77.9Mbit. Technically it's at 79971Kbit - so close to a full 80Mbit! The attainable is around 81-82Mbit so perhaps if I manually resync during a time of 'good' line conditions i'll be able to clamp at the full 80/20. Still, definitely not complaining about syncing a mere 29Kbit out from the max!

Now that i'm on a 3dB SNRM target;

  • G-Retransmit Corrections on the downstream are a little more frequent compared to before, but the per minute scale isn't above what it was previously.
  • G-Retransmit Uncorrectable has remained at 0, with the exception of that large spike during Saturday's DLM resync for the 4dB SNRM profile application.
  • G-LEFTR is around the same as before, with only the odd upstream one jumping to 1, aside again from a large spike during Saturday's DLM for the 4dB SNRM profile application.

Hopefully now that's the last of my DLM initated resyncs and I have a nice stable, fast, low-latency line!

Comparing things now to before I started trying to get G.INP and xdB applied to my line;

  • Downstream Sync has jumped from 58Mbit to 80Mbit
  • Upstream Sync has jumped from 17Mbit to 20Mbit
  • Latency has decreased by 8ms

I'm very pleased with how things have turned out overall. When I first moved here, I never had any expectations that i'd be able to get a (near) full 80/20 sync given that i'm around 550m from the cabinet and have around 16-17dB of attenuation. I'm in a Virgin area so presumably that has helped reduce crosstalk at least, but my experiences here really goes to show just how much of a difference both G.INP and xdB can make to line speeds. A full 22Mbit gain on the downstream is certainly very pleasing!

I'm going to keep an eye on my line and hope that now DLM considers it stable enough to remain at the current sync rates, my other next step now that I am hopefully with a perfect line is to see if I can get Baby Jumbo Frames working with my Zyxel VMG1312-B10A. I will of course keep this thread updated if anything changes with regards to the line!

Thank you once again to everyone here on this thread who has helped me with this and to Kitz for both the general information on the site and providing a forum for knowledgeable users to gather and help out - i'm extremely grateful! I've tried to be as verbose as possible when documenting my issues and how the line has changed over time, and hopefully this will help other users in a similar situation when it comes to what potentially to expect with changes to their line. I've attached a few screenshots of my SNRM, Sync and G-Retransmit Correctable stats over the last 7 days as G.INP and xdB was applied - hopefully that helps illustrate the overall picture. The stats are of course up on MyDSLWebStats - use the dates of the posts here to refine the data view, they should be retained there til around this time 2019.  (I also dropped a small donation to the site, if you've been following this thread either now or in the future and it's helped you out, please also consider dropping a small donation to support the future of the site  :) )
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 06:50:41 PM by KingJ »
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