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Author Topic: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM  (Read 5266 times)

Chrysalis

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2018, 05:48:18 PM »

My experience was that by limiting the sync speed, in my case I dropped from 35mbps down to 20mbps the interleaving was released within 3-4 days. However, the banding was not removed.

Does anyone have any information on what needs to happen for banding to be removed also? Other than an Openreach engineer visit.

Just over a week later I'm still on fastpath, but still banded.

I think for banding you need to be synced at the banding rate "and" have a healthy snrm significantly above the target snrm.
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JamesK

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2018, 08:31:34 PM »

I think for banding you need to be synced at the banding rate "and" have a healthy snrm significantly above the target snrm.

The speed cap is now completely removed, and has been for over a week. The SNRM dB is 15.6.


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kitz

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 10:41:20 AM »

I notice that DLM has taken further action again today.   Yet again ~160 Err Secs.


Do you by any chance have TalkTalk TV services?   
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skyeci

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 10:46:57 AM »

I wonder if the increased interleaving is due to the osciallting snr rather errors. Perhaps dlm is trying to stabilise snr and bring it back to target as it was under before.

now the US snr had practically died (3.2) surely this is a fault somewhere or large source of interference ? If it stays this low I imagine dlm will step in again to stabilise snr
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 10:50:05 AM by skyeci »
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broadstairs

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 11:12:20 AM »

I notice that DLM has taken further action again today.   Yet again ~160 Err Secs.


Do you by any chance have TalkTalk TV services?

No dont have that...

I wonder if the increased interleaving is due to the osciallting snr rather errors. Perhaps dlm is trying to stabilise snr and bring it back to target as it was under before.

now the US snr had practically died (3.2) surely this is a fault somewhere or large source of interference ? If it stays this low I imagine dlm will step in again to stabilise snr

Quite possibly trouble is I doubt that TT will acknowledge that it needs fixing!

The re-sync around 4am stabilised the SNRM but around 09:30 this morning it went pear shaped again.

Stuart
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skyeci

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2018, 12:40:38 PM »

yup still dropping on us :no:.. 2.6...wow..
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 12:49:05 PM by skyeci »
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kitz

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2018, 01:03:30 PM »

afaik DLM doesnt monitor SNRM in that respect.  Its triggers are MTBE and MTBR.
My own line frequently oscilates often more than that,  but DLM only takes action when the Err Secs get too high.  If you look back on my line since before xmas you will see it oscillated betwen 6.3 & 4.8 dB for a few weeks.   MDWS smooths out the spikes because of averages, but live mapping showed the spikes where every minute.

I've seen several other lines oscilate worse than that and it never takes any notice. 

The oscilations dont even take broadstairs below 5dB.  However DLM can and does take an interest in SES.

That one difference I notice between mine and broadstairs.   Both may oscilate, Both can have large error spikes. BUT generally speaking my SES are typically < 1/4 of the E/S rate.   Practically every one of Broadstairs E/S has been an SES.

All I can do is refer back to this post here


Quote
now the US snr had practically died (3.2) surely this is a fault somewhere or large source of interference ?

That wasn't there when I last looked. *  It doesnt look good :(



*I'd originally looked at about 9am..  only noticed because it was on my MDWS screen when I'd gone to look at my own stats to see if there were any clues why I'd had no broadband for 5.5hrs last night.   
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Chrysalis

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2018, 02:05:29 PM »

The speed cap is now completely removed, and has been for over a week. The SNRM dB is 15.6.


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just wait and see now, my comment is only a thoery based on what happened on my line.
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broadstairs

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2018, 09:54:06 AM »

Well we had some more errors last evening but these were genuine because we had a thunderstorm. However my errors kicked in again this morning just after 09:00 but nothing in the house is timed to start at that time so it has to be external somewhere.

Stuart
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broadstairs

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2018, 05:43:18 PM »

Looking at the graphs it seems today that the problem started around 9am and stopped around 4pm, being a Friday the problem seems to have finished earlier. It will be interesting to see if it happens over the weekend and starts again on Monday. If so it would seem to be someone doing work and causing noise but around here I am at a loss to see how or where as it is all residential. Even residential where the cabinet is on corner of Stone Road and Dickens Road in Broadstairs. VM work is going on in Kings Avenue near here but not that close and I dont see why that would be causing it.

Stuart
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broadstairs

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2018, 07:52:44 AM »

Well yesterday passed without the line going very bad, my SNRM still is a tad flaky especially last night but nothing dreadful. So if today behaves the same way I'll be on the lookout for something happening nearby which is new and may be causing the very bad behavior.

Stuart
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broadstairs

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2018, 08:19:39 AM »

Well I had a reasonable weekend error wise, not perfect though but significantly less trouble than last week. However this morning DLM intervened to reduce the interleaving but it looks very much as though my line got capped as my sync is 59993kbps probably last week during one of the interventions as my SNRM now is 6.4db and attainable is around 75000kbps. Both SNRMs are still jittery. I am still more convinced that DLM is broken and that I have a fault on my line but there is no way that I can report it to TT as they will look at the predicted speeds when I re-signed and say it is within spec.

The system is very broken where they are simply reducing the predicted speeds precisely to hide problems and reduce the call out rate. We have a broken system and BT need to stop the farce of G.FAST etc and start to deliver a 21st century solution which is far more reliable, country wide FTTP. If all the money was diverted from stuff like G.FAST and fixing a broken copper infrastructure which was never designed for its use today I'm sure things would improve. Although it would obviously take time half of the FTTP is already in place having fibre at the cabinet.

Stuart
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Ixel

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2018, 09:42:53 AM »

Well I had a reasonable weekend error wise, not perfect though but significantly less trouble than last week. However this morning DLM intervened to reduce the interleaving but it looks very much as though my line got capped as my sync is 59993kbps probably last week during one of the interventions as my SNRM now is 6.4db and attainable is around 75000kbps. Both SNRMs are still jittery. I am still more convinced that DLM is broken and that I have a fault on my line but there is no way that I can report it to TT as they will look at the predicted speeds when I re-signed and say it is within spec.

The system is very broken where they are simply reducing the predicted speeds precisely to hide problems and reduce the call out rate. We have a broken system and BT need to stop the farce of G.FAST etc and start to deliver a 21st century solution which is far more reliable, country wide FTTP. If all the money was diverted from stuff like G.FAST and fixing a broken copper infrastructure which was never designed for its use today I'm sure things would improve. Although it would obviously take time half of the FTTP is already in place having fibre at the cabinet.

Stuart

True. DLM sadly is used more to cover up faults instead of just being a temporary measure to keep a line stable until a fault is rectified. If you're banded then it may take a long time before the banding gets increased or removed by DLM. You may be better off going with an ISP who charges more but does their job in fighting Openreach for the customer (or tries very hard to do so) such as AAISP. Hopefully one month contract options will appear soon for FTTC.

I remember when I was with BT Business and I contacted them regarding a banded connection and they said I was getting a speed just above the estimate so there's nothing they could do. I think I was something like 60 Mbps when I could get the full 80 Mbps, and it was caused by a faulty SSFP filter installed by the engineer.
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broadstairs

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Re: Very frustrated with what I believe is broken DLM
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2018, 10:22:16 AM »

I think there is no point in changing now. We have Virgin fibre being installed here so when that is available I'll have a proper 21st century solution instead of crap copper. Last time I was banded it took a complaint to BT CEO to get it removed after nearly 18 months.

Stuart
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