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Author Topic: Compensation  (Read 2074 times)

JGO

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Compensation
« on: November 10, 2017, 04:25:10 PM »

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roseway

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 04:48:38 PM »

I wonder how they're going to distinguish between faults in the network and faults caused by the user.
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  Eric

Chrysalis

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 05:53:49 PM »

this is long overdue, but at the same time businesses are businesses and we will likely see them cracking down on what they accept as faults to avoid payouts.
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stevebrass

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 09:36:20 PM »

I wonder how they're going to distinguish between faults in the network and faults caused by the user.

Precisely. Do Ofcom realise this do you think?
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 11:23:56 PM »

What people want, imho, is a reliable service, rather than a poor one with compensation payouts.

If there were demand for financial payouts to people who have lost service, the insurance industry would have found the niche, and offered products.   I have seen no evidence that any demand exists for such insurance products for domestic customers, though they might exist for commercial users.

Now it seems the CPs are being compelled, in effect, to provide an insurance product that nobody wants.    And worse, like any Insurance product, it has overheads... staff to administer it, and funds from which to pay claims.     These overheads, for an insurance service that nobody wants, will all have to be paid from the CP’s customers via their bills.   

Nice one, Ofcom.   :(
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kitz

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 11:38:12 PM »

Didn't we discuss this earlier this year when the proposals were first made by OFCOM?

>>Service not working, and not fixed after two days:

What the EU defines as 2 days, what the ISP defines as 2 days...  and what 2 days means to Openreach could be entirely different things.

We already know that some ISPs defer sending out Openreach.  Some ISPs will even inisist on sending out their own 'techs' before calling in Openreach.

Some ISPs blame Openreach when it may not be.  One of the common things I used to see with a certain ISP was blaming Openreach for delays during new install or migration, when the truth was said ISP had their own engineer who hooked up the EU between the Inspan handover and their own MSAN.  These engineers only visit exchanges on specific days of the week. 

Was watching a convo between a few ISP reps and the general consensus appeared to be that it could only cause increased monthly fees for the EU.  The rules are still not clearly defined and could cause some dispute as far as the EU is concerned when it comes to placing blame... when it could be difficult to prove just with whom the fault lies.



Missed Openreach appts though is something.   Far too often people would wait in all day and then end up with a no-show. 
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2017, 12:23:31 AM »

You’re right Kitz, we’ve probably been over all this, sorry if I am repeating myself.

Re missed OR appointments, yes that’s a problem, for which I personally think heads should roll.   My worry is that fixed compensations will just legitimise such events, and make matters worse, as has happened in air travel...

...Forty years ago you could be pretty sure if you bought a ticket, unless the airline went bust, you’d fly.   Nowadays all you can be sure of is you’ll get compensation if it doesn’t fly, unless of course the airline’s clever lawyers can avoid it, and they often will.  Either way, cancellations nowadays are much more common yet imply no loss of reputation whatsoever  to the airline, all thanks to a ‘compensation agreement’.
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kitz

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2017, 12:28:11 AM »

No wasn't blaming anyone here.   My comment was more along the lines of  I think this is more of an old topic that the BBC may have dragged up again.

My post wasnt aimed at you.  In fact it crossed with your post as Im a slow typer these days and your post wasnt even there when I made my comment :)
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kitz

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2017, 12:33:45 AM »

I thought I wasn't imagining it.

ejs brought it up here
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,19562.msg344959/topicseen.html#msg344959

also discussed here.
http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,18723.msg335690/topicseen.html#msg335690

but I think there may have also been another one too.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 09:46:30 AM »

7LM the idea is to improve the service as this now is a financial motivation to improve service quality, with the current state of affairs the CPs have no real incentive to fix faults quickly
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WWWombat

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Re: Compensation
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 11:26:09 AM »

I agree that the aim is to improve the service by adding an incentive. I also believe that the law of unintended consequences means that prices will go up to fund it.

My personal bugbear was on missed appointments. Ofcom's service quality measurements didn't provide an incentive to improve this aspect, but it was good to see Openreach target this aspect themselves last year (halving them, IIRC). I have no problem with compensation in this respect.

However, the 2 day fix time will be a big issue - for all the reasons that @kitz mentions.

I wonder what will happen to the different SLA grades that BT currently offer - currently 4 levels from 2 working days, 5 days per week, to 6hrs, 24x7 - and how much it will homogenize  the ISP behaviour.
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