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Author Topic: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets  (Read 4960 times)

Ixel

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 09:40:49 AM »

btw whilst at the OR site also saw this...  which Im not sure if I like the look of.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefingsarticles/nga03817.do

Could be an end to the Open Profile and straight to Interleave for all.   Not so much of a problem for Huawei's who then move on to G.INP.
However ECI cabs in some respects are currently immune to the Interleave by default.  It can be a PITA getting rid of INP as it is, so I can forsee that a lot of lines that normally would run quite well on ILQ amber without INP, having problems getting INP removed.

I'm not sure whether I do like it, because if a new line was behaving pretty badly DLM could (and would) immediately over-ride open profile.   Supposedly its because of complaints during the Open phase..  but seriously???  Most of the large ISPs resort to telling the EU it will settle in 10 days and still use the 'training phase' even though its not strictly true.   The line is at most on Open for 48hrs so someone would have to be pretty quick off the mark to think that an engineer would be there before DLM has kicked in on its own anyhow.  :-\

Yeah this was posted on ISPreview recently, I also mentioned it in another thread in the news section here. I'm fearful it might mean interleaving by default and no more fastpath. If it's interleaving I really hope it's something lighter than INP 3 and delay 8ms (e.g. INP 2 perhaps, like it was before G.INP rolled out in whatever part Eircom manages in Ireland). On the other hand it might mean something different, it might mean Reed Solomon Coding on downstream by default. Right now the Broadcom devices negotiate with an R value of 0 on downstream if fastpath, where Infineon/Lantiq devices seem to negotiate with an R of 16 (at least on ECI DSLAM's). Maybe their intention is to have an R value greater than 0 on the downstream by default like it is for upstream. I don't mind that.

If however interleaving, like INP 3 delay 8ms, is used by default then it's just going to mask many line faults and make it that much harder for Openreach to admit and agree that there's a problem. I really hope this is not the case as I'd miss my current 5.5 to 6.0 ms ping on the new TalkTalk backhaul (trialling) via AAISP to YouTube.

I am already suspicious of interleaving being the default on ECI cabs now. I have had a huge amount of trouble getting it removed only for DLM to put it back almost immediately and not remove it at all. I know my line can run well at amber ILQ and when G.INP was available on ECI my line ran exceptionally well at around 70000kbps, now the best I get is around  61000kbps with interleaving and exceptionally low error rates only just making double figure ES in 24 hours but DLM stubbornly refusing to remove interleaving.

Stuart

Try capping it at 54 on the ds. Worked for me. 8 days to get rid of it after waiting 5 weeks. I removed the cap after the removal and still on fast path with no issue.

This helped me recently too I believe. I bumped up the SNRM target offset on my DrayTek to initially +3.0 dB and then +5.0 dB (maximum allowed) and I'm now fastpath :).

If I'm running with barely 10-20 or so ES/day I dont see how reducing the speed will get DLM to do anything. My line is unquestionably running very well in terms of very low error rates and DLM wont do anything. Just seems pointless to me unless anyone else can give me an explanation as to why DLM might intervene, so I dont intend to try it until I have an explanation as to why it might work.

Stuart

We don't know for sure but FEC errors might also be taken into consideration, are they low?
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Chrysalis

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2017, 09:55:23 AM »

its also possible they will interleave by default but still allow lines to be moved to fast path, so keeping fast path as a profile just not as default
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adslmax

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 09:25:25 PM »

That's good to hear it. Now, I want to let PN know of doing this DLM reset!
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kitz

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 09:59:19 PM »

As I said elsewhere - Plusnet cant yet.

This is currently an interim solution for GEA FTTC and as such is not currently available to all ISPs at the present time.

Plusnet arent one of those who can request it yet on the new system (neither are BTr come to that).
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adslmax

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 10:02:01 PM »

That's because PN and BT are too cheap marketing! They proud to be but in my view, they unproud to be. PN is going downhill. I probably consider switch to other isp soon. But who?
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kitz

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2017, 10:07:41 PM »

Quote
That's because PN and BT are too cheap marketing!

NO!  Absolutely nothing to do with that at all.



----
Imagine a different scenario.
One whereby only BT customers had the ability to get a DLM reset from Openreach.   
Now think who would be screaming hardest.
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burakkucat

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2017, 10:12:08 PM »

I probably consider switch to other isp soon. But who?

If you want the best, I'll suggest Andrews and Arnold.
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atkinsong

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2018, 06:27:33 PM »

I have today, just before 4.00 pm, had a DLM reset which was arranged by BT Retail.

Story is that back in November I got carried away by the DGA4130 thread and obtained one. Had great fun setting it up as per the thread, but the end result was my line becoming both interleaved and banded. Straight back to the Draytek and despite 6 weeks of zero errors there was no sign at all of DLM relenting.
On Jan 3rd I recontracted with BT, and was pleased to see my synch was below the guaranteed minimum. Rather than raise this issue by phone, I opted to ask for help via the BT Community Forums. Although this is a customer to customer forum there is a "small specialised team of BT employees" who will on occasion pick up issues. I was hoping to have an OR visit so that a reset could be done. My case was picked up yesterday, and I received a message from the person who picked it up to say he had raised the issue with OR and would call today with an update. I checked the stats a couple of times this morning but no change. I received the call shortly after 4pm to be informed a reset had been done and my banding and interleaving removed - indeed it has.
We had a good chat about it and he confirmed that the reset had been done remotely, but also said that OR are controlling this extremely tightly, and when he submitted the request he had no idea whether it would be done or not. Definately a move in the right direction.
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ktz392837

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2018, 06:43:47 PM »

Great news but I am not sure it can be classed as a move in the right direction unless it is a change of ISP/OR policy.

To me if you explain the problem was caused by a 'faulty" modem the line should just be reset you shouldn't need to beg or hope that either the ISP or OR will do it or risk getting charged 100 for the privilege.  It should basically be can you please reset my line, yes we have done it and  thanks for your continued business.

Edit: What would have happened if you were still above the minimum for the line?  My range for "acceptable" performance is 25Mb, to me that is not an acceptable range it should be 5-10Mb at the MOST for an established line.  If I tried a new modem and lost 25Mb of performance I wouldn't be happy if I couldn't get a reset, if I had lost 5Mb I wouldn't be happy.  If you can give a sensible reason and you are not continually asking for resets the ISP/OR should just reset the line no questions asked.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 07:02:34 PM by ktz392837 »
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atkinsong

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2018, 06:50:46 PM »

Fair comment, but as we know things tend to move ever so slowly in OR, but at least they appear to be moving.
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2018, 06:53:12 PM »

Great news but I am not sure it can be classed as a move in the right direction unless it is a change of ISP/OR policy.

To me if you explain the problem was caused by a 'faulty" modem the line should just be reset you shouldn't need to beg or hope that either the ISP or OR will do it or risk getting charged 100 for the privilege.  It should basically be can you please reset my line, yes we have done it and  thanks for your continued business.

The problem here lies with the bigger picture. How long would it be before individuals/ISP's started to be liberal with the truth ??

I agree a move forward needs to happen regarding this particular scenario, but it needs to be policed correctly.
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adslmax

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2018, 07:01:50 PM »

That's good to hear it. But sadly plusnet will not do it. No matter what is it down to DLM caution counter to check the next banded to be removed. They always telling me that fttc doesn't have any caution counter and they haven't got the tool to see this. I know they making excuse out of it. But the way my sync rate stayed at 74 Meg for 48 days ongoing now. Don't think it will never removed it off for a very long time but I ain't bother because losing 6 Meg off from 80 to 74 is hardly noticed any difference but if I did lose up to 15 Meg knockoff then it will be a matter to chase it up with plusnet to get it sorted out. Hopefully all ISPs will follow this step.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 07:12:45 PM by adslmax »
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ktz392837

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2018, 07:06:39 PM »

I edited my reply above unfortunately not quick enough before replies were posted.
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Black Sheep

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2018, 07:09:26 PM »

That's good to hear it. But sadly plusnet will not do it. No matter what is it down to DLM caution counter to the banded removed. They always telling me that fttc doesn't have any caution counter and they haven't got the tool to see this. I know they making excuse out of it.

Caution counters are present on FTTC DLM, and I cant see why a large ISP such as PlusNet, or any ISP for that matter would deny this ??

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adslmax

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Re: FTTC DLM Caution Counter Resets
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2018, 07:19:01 PM »

Caution counters are present on FTTC DLM, and I cant see why a large ISP such as PlusNet, or any ISP for that matter would deny this ??

Try telling this to Anoush (Gandalf) as he answered all my questions below:

ME: Will you be able to get in touch with the fault team see what they reckon?

PN: As a business, we've got no control over DLM and can't send out an engineer if your line is performing within estimates.

In addition, our faults team have access to the same tools as I do.

ME: The FIbre do have caution counter (this part need to be check it out) as it will tell how long to wait before the next DLM act again to removed banded?

PN: Our tests don't show that I'm afraid.
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