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[Chrysalis]

Starting October 1st.

I am pretty shocked, the UK as we know with how broadband is regulated by ofcom is very heavy a competition economy.  Yet this decision has removed an innovator that was shaking up the taxi industry.

I am a heavy user of taxis and can give an idea how much better uber is.

I used to use citylink in Leicester for most journeys, typically you would need to book at least 2 hours in advance to be sure of a slot, and if it was during busy times, you could expect it to be late, but not know how much its late as was common practice for the operator to lie to me on the phone "just round the corner mate", 10 mins later still no taxi

I needed cash on hand to pay the drivers, and had no record of journeys unless asking for a receipt which typically was price written on a card with the taxi branding on it.

Uber, I book using my phone on the app, its a transaction that is fully automated, everytime I have made a booking its been accepted by a driver within 5 seconds.  Never ever waiting, maybe 10% of the time the taxi driver is doing a dropoff, but that dropoff is close to me on their way to me, so in those situations is maybe a delay of 1-2 mins at the most.  The drivers are always my side of town and usually within 5 streets when accepting the job.  I can track them on GPS so know where they are, and if I know they coming from the wrong way to pick me up on the side of the road I am on, I can cross the road in advance ready as well.  Payment is automated no cash needed.

I also get every 11th journey free on a barclaycard offer.  For me the cost is on average about 10% down, what I would used to spend, plus another 10% for the offer so maybe 20% saving although occasionally there is surge charging which makes it expensive, for me the gain is how much more convenient and reliable the service is versus a traditional taxi service.

Uber also allows you or the driver to contact each other should there be a problem with the taxi driver finding you.

The drivers I have chatted to, prefer it as well, most of them used to work for the traditional firms and are working full time for uber.  They e.g. now get guaranteed payment as its automated, they can accept jobs near where they are, whilst a normal taxi firm could make them travel across town to their next job.  They can log off the system whenever they want so the hours are basically flexible.

Just signed the petition which has only been up for a matter of hours and is fast heading to the million mark already.

[Black Sheep]

We've muttered about this subject before, Chrys, and I too am a massive fan of Uber when I wander in to Manchester.

I haven't read the reasons as to why London have decided as they have, but I heard a snippet on the radio suggesting it was partly due to the "Publics safety" ??

I may try and find time to read up on it later, off to work now. 

[broadstairs]

Having worked in and around London for years when working I have always been a fan of Black Cabs. I think in London in particular the safety issue is a real one, there is no real vetting of Uber drivers like there is for Black Cabs plus how many Uber drivers know how to get from A to B in London without a sat nav especially when confronted with a traffic jam or accident etc., plus how many can be sure of taking the quickest route. I have lost count of the number of black cab rides I have taken in London and it always amazed me when we dived off down a side street always to emerge in the right place at the right time.

If a Black Cab has an accident or breakdown it is off the road until properly assessed and if a Black Cab driver commits a crime or even a motoring offence he risks being off the road permanently.

Now if Uber wants to work in London they simply must have a very strict open and fair vetting procedure for their drivers and ensure they have no criminal past. Also they must vet the vehicles and ensure correct insurance is in place and not leave any of this up to the drivers to sort. I'm sure that there are a lot of very trustworthy folk driving for them BUT and in my view it's a big BUT I do not believe that they have done enough to prove that no less desirable drivers are behind the wheel or god forbid ones with no or inadequate insurance.

I do not think it fair to compare Uber with Black Cabs in London they are completely different, however comparison with private hire is valid.

Their business model might be great in principle but as in so many cases companies try to do this on the cheap and complain when they are challenged because their implementation is flawed, which in my view is the issue with Uber. Even their bosses have had issues and have had to resign over them.

Stuart

[sevenlayermuddle]

I’m also a big fan of the London black cabs.   The professionalism of the drivers, and the regulations that control them, render them pretty unique.   Uber may have a place in other cities, but not in London, imho.

[Dray]

Looks like you're in a minority

Uber petition to save ride-hailing app in London passes 500,000 signatures within 24 hours

[Black Sheep]

Some decent points made above, but have there been many .... or any ..... criminal cases raised against Uber drivers in London ??

In the same vein, have there been any brought to Black Cab drivers ?? If so, what are the figures for both ??

There has to be some kind of distinction brought to bear, before 'we' start to just dismiss a public service, surely ??

[sevenlayermuddle]

It would be interesting to see the geographic distribution of people signing the petition.  Don’t know whether change.org displays that or not, I couldn’t see it anywhere...?

[GigabitEthernet]

I'm in two minds about Uber, the way the app is designed and works is excellent and really has changed the game which I think has benefited everyone. On the other hand, they pay next to no tax and there are safety issues reported.

I wish tfl would launch something like Uber but for black cabs. They'd make a killing.

[Black Sheep]

Totally agree .......... the app is absolute genius ....... and of course they are always cheaper than black cabs. Yes, I know the reasons why, it's just folk will generally opt for the cheaper fare.

[WWWombat]

I always had the impression that London's taxi market worked differently from most of the rest of the country.

That is ... London has always had an antagonistic market between the hail-anywhere black cabs/hackney carriages, and the book-in-advance private hire cabs. The latter "minicabs" (a name that seems to only stick in London) have a subgroup that is seen as rogue, unregulated, cheap, but rather unsafe: Minicab drivers willing to take on hailed fares, and in some cases bypassing safety checks. It has historically taken a lot of work to keep the rogue elements off the streets.

In our smaller cities (I'm thinking about the ~300,000 population places), the focus is much more private hire, with rather fewer hail-anywhere cabs. Much less of an antagonistic nature, and much less of a problem with the rogue element. I suspect people are just used to the "book in advance" nature of private hire.

The bigger cities - Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds - seem to have more hailable cabs, but don't seem to have the antagonistic nature either, and are still lower on the rogue scale.

So what about Uber?

It seems to make private-hire cars into a near-hailing experience, but for less money.

Outside London, that drops it firmly into a competitive environment, but where rogues are not the norm. In London, however, it looks like it feeds directly into the market that the rogue elements used to inhabit. Given the history, I can certainly see why the London councils want to keep it firmly under their thumb. The question is whether the rogues have switched to Uber...

[kitz]

I can see both sides in this - ie how consumers want a cheaper product... and conversely about Ubers practices.

Whilst I appreciate that it may work well in other cities, from what I can gather there was some very real concerns about how Uber operated in London deeming them not fit and proper.   
When it amounts to security and safety for passengers, and exploitation of employees then without doubt I think that TFL did the right thing. 

[sevenlayermuddle]

Thinking more upon it, tfl decided that Uber were not ‘fit and proper’.

It was not just a rogue employee after too many beers, or a rogue Mayor on an election campaign, it was an official statement from tfl.  That statement will have been scrutinised at umpteen levels to make sure it could be justified in court, and vetted by lawyers to ensure the individual who issued the statement was showing due diligence.  In short, it wasn’t a rant.  The only reason for not making that statement would have been ‘fear of Uber’.

Regardless of whether or not you use and/or like Uber, and regardless of whether Uber or tfl end up winning the argument, let’s maybe let’s at least support tfl for standing up to bullying from $multibillion American corporations?

[Chrysalis]

As I said its not just about price but in how the app itself has revolutionised the taxi business.

There is equivalent to black cabs in every city, Leicester has them as well, most often parked outside of the train station, they are of course super expensive as you have the meter running.  Uber pricing is not much cheaper than pre booked taxi service (in my opinion about 10%).  Does London have pre booking fixed price taxi services without meters or do black cabs have a monopoly?

[sevenlayermuddle]

@chrysalis

The point is, TFL will have considered all these points, and I assume will be able to prove they have done so.  Else, they would not have made their statements.

So, since we can assume that TFL have done all research and genuinely believe their position to be justifiable, should we not be supporting them in this UK-based David vs  US-based Goliath battle?   

BTW I still await response to my earlier question, re geographic distribution of petitioners.   How many are actually Londoners?   How many are even UK?   I’d really like to know the answers.

[Chrysalis]

They will back down, market demand will force the issue. You dont think TFL have been extensively lobbied by the black cabs before this decision?

Do you know 7LM if there is standard taxi firms in london? as to me riding in a uber isnt much different to that, the drivers I spoke to said they using the same vehicles as they did for those taxi firms.

According to uber there is background checks carried out on drivers, just not directly, they use a 3rd party.

If the taxi drivers can do a go slow protest, I think 500k+ people are also capable of a protest.

On the poll I got no idea how many are londoners, uber sent me the poll, knowing I dont live in london.  But does that mean I will never in my lifetime perhaps want to use uber in london, or I shouldnt care because it doesnt affect me right now? Sorry I am not one of those people who only cares about #1.