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Author Topic: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI  (Read 10367 times)

kitz

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 07:57:17 PM »

Cue, fault levels rise.  ::)

Hopefully it shouldnt.   
Which is why I raised the question about Openreach using the term 'proof of concept' - which ejs explained is pre-trial.
If that is the case then I doubt it will be anything that most ECI cab users see anytime soon .

I'm actually quite sad about that, as I feel my own line would have benefited. 
TBH if it is problematic, then I do believe even the crippled NGA system should back off in a few days & before the average bod would notice  - See discussion here
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skyeci

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 08:00:33 PM »

In all honesty I think you really mean ECI . . .

Them as well  ;D

kitz

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 08:04:51 PM »

Let's hope openreach get it right this time....  ???

TBH I dont forsee too much of a problem.   It is only proof of concept.  Shorter lines could benefit.
 
Its already in use on 21CN (which doesnt have G.INP) without any issue.   If the line experiences issues and generates more errors,  then in theory it should back off in a day or two.   3dB has been in use by other ISP DLM systems for >10yrs.

6dB is needed for ADSL1, but advancements in dsl algorithms since ADSL2(+) has lowered this to 3dB for stable lines - which means that if a line doesn't have more than a 1dB daily swing and drop below 2dB, then hopefully they should be fine.  ***

The fly in the ointment with NGA DLM is its over zealous use of capping. :/  ...  and the ECI inability to do vectoring and upstream g.inp.

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ETA

Whilst I am unhappy about lack of g.inp (& vectoring) on the ECI's -  and how things do keep getting delaying for retransmission...  perhaps because this keeps getting delayed then why should it stop them pre-trialling something which could benefit some ECI users.   
In an ideal world it would be nice if ECI users could get vectoring and g.inp, and as such those users are getting an inferior service, so why not at least see if the XdB could at least benefit some lines.

***
reg member Kondrado who is on adsl 2+ quite often pushes his line to below 2dB without any undue consequences. 
Ive even tried it myself when on BE* a few times but cba to keep tweaking after every reboot, but I do know it ran ok several times at 2dB or less after a crosstalker came online.    The caveat with doing this on NGA and pushing a line to its max,  is that damn cap.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 08:31:11 PM by kitz »
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Chrysalis

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 09:02:04 PM »

kitz how come u hate banding? u prefer interleaving?  or is it just the stickyness you hate?
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kitz

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2017, 09:12:30 PM »

How it sticks.   

Personally I dont like interleaving and if I had the option I would choose speed reduction, but each to their own and most people dont notice INP.
I sincerely dislike how the NGA system banding seems impossible to remove, so yes in the likes of your case I can fully understand anyone who self caps.   
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Chrysalis

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2017, 10:27:23 PM »

Thanks kitz, I think this has came about as openreach want one system to please everyone, they need to add some control that CPs (or their users) can overide.

I dont like a DLM that flaps a line, but others are ok with it if it means eeking every bit of performance out their line.

My gut feeling is in line with wombat, I suspect this is happening alongside a g.inp test. 
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skyeci

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2017, 10:30:21 PM »

Interesting comment on tbb forum. Eci g.inp supposedly being reintroduced from 25th september rolling out to 600k lines by Dec and whole estate by March 2018..

Fingers crossed...
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 11:22:53 PM by skyeci »
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Bowdon

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2017, 11:35:02 PM »

Topics merged to give ejs credit as original author and person who disclosed this info.   
I'm aware Mark follows (no prob with that), but no further info in that which hasnt already been covered on here. 
Thanks Bowden, as you may not have been aware this was previously under discussion. :)


I don't mind. I didn't see the original information that ejs put out, so all credit to him.

As long as us on ECI cabinets start getting some good news then its all welcome! :)
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burakkucat

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2017, 12:04:26 AM »

Interesting comment on tbb forum.

Yes . . . but from whom?  :-X
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j0hn

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2017, 12:57:20 AM »

Yes . . . but from whom?  :-X
AndyHCZ
Thread is here
He often has decent OpenReach info. A number of things he's said about ECI G.INP in the past have been incorrect though, including that it's gong to work on the upstream.
His 2 posts conflict with each other, so I'd take what he says with a pinch of salt.

I don't see why OpenReach would put an update out to CP's to tell them the trial is delayed, for it to start 2 weeks later. The previous update had only said Autumn I believe, so I'm sceptical about it starting on 25th September.
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skyeci

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2017, 01:30:22 PM »

AndyHCZ
Thread is here
He often has decent OpenReach info. A number of things he's said about ECI G.INP in the past have been incorrect though, including that it's gong to work on the upstream.
His 2 posts conflict with each other, so I'd take what he says with a pinch of salt.

I don't see why OpenReach would put an update out to CP's to tell them the trial is delayed, for it to start 2 weeks later. The previous update had only said Autumn I believe, so I'm sceptical about it starting on 25th September.


A further comment from AndyHCZ

"I missed the updated briefing, hence the conflict.

The retransmission trial will start tomorrow to be loaded on to lines"

Could be an interesting day tomorrow..

Not sure why it's a trial. Last thing or said was that gi.np had been fixed....

"The ECI RETX fix has been delivered and extensively tested. It is being included in a full update to the network and this full release is under test"....
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 01:40:31 PM by skyeci »
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Bowdon

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2017, 02:18:47 PM »

I'm a little behind the G.INP news. But is G.INP in action now on ECI cabinets?

I'm not sure how going down from 6dB to 3dB isn't going to cause problems, unless DLM is having its programming updated also to be more relaxed.

I know I've never lost sync through being too low dB. It's always been DLM sticking its boot in  :oldman:
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skyeci

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2017, 02:55:29 PM »

I'm a little behind the G.INP news. But is G.INP in action now on ECI cabinets?

I'm not sure how going down from 6dB to 3dB isn't going to cause problems, unless DLM is having its programming updated also to be more relaxed.

I know I've never lost sync through being too low dB. It's always been DLM sticking its boot in  :oldman:


Not seen any enabled yet. Perhaps we might some this week...have to wait and see

ejs

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2017, 03:12:30 PM »

It feels like people would be complaining if they don't get XdB, and will also be complaining if they do!
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kitz

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2017, 03:31:47 PM »

No complaints from me.   As said above,  its worked on other DLM systems for years without g.inp. :)
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