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Author Topic: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI  (Read 10299 times)

kitz

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2017, 03:37:03 PM »

AndyHCZ
Thread is here

Ahh..  one cab.  Now I understand why they didnt say trial and ejs was correct when he said pre-trial.
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WWWombat

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2017, 04:07:32 PM »

The details from AndyHCZ still look to me like BT are trying to chase one trial with another, and the PoC is just step 1 in that process.

I have no skin in the ECI game, but I have my fingers crossed that this rollout goes OK. It certainly looks like BT want this done and sorted ASAP ... but that is also a sign that perhaps ECI (the company) has managed to regain some trust.

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j0hn

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2017, 07:19:44 PM »

If a G.INP rollout does start tomorrow at a rate that should hit 600k lines by December, then it shouldn't be too long before we see lines on MDWS showing enabled.

I'd be very very surprised if we see anyone on the xdB PoC if it really is a single cabinet.
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ktz392837

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2017, 07:49:55 PM »

If a G.INP rollout does start tomorrow at a rate that should hit 600k lines by December, then it shouldn't be too long before we see lines on MDWS showing enabled.

I'd be very very surprised if we see anyone on the xdB PoC if it really is a single cabinet.
Not sure how reliable the cabinet detection is though on mdws so that will screw the results also.  Quite a few people in the past have reported it is wrong requiring manual setting and it doesn't seem to update itself if you move cabinet/house.
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j0hn

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2017, 10:08:12 PM »

it's perfect. It detects the use of tones that varies between the 2 vendors. It does need manually changed but it's not often people move or change cabinet.

It's right at the moment. The ECI user with g.inp does indeed have it.

edit: might not detect the tones actually but I know it is accurate and only needs manually changing if you switch DSLAM
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 10:11:03 PM by j0hn »
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skyeci

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2017, 11:51:05 AM »

Upload user "ayeaye" never had eci  g.inp disabled from the last time. I wonder if his cab firmware type has changed at all recently.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 12:08:44 PM by skyeci »
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tbailey2

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2017, 01:10:00 PM »

it's perfect. It detects the use of tones that varies between the 2 vendors. It does need manually changed but it's not often people move or change cabinet.

It's right at the moment. The ECI user with g.inp does indeed have it.

edit: might not detect the tones actually but I know it is accurate and only needs manually changing if you switch DSLAM

Thank you for the kind words :)

Actually it's perfectly capable of updating when it detects a DSLAM change but this tends to occasionally flap about on a user with a poor line so it's currently turned off.

For anyone interested, MDWS does use the tones from the Bits/Tone data that is uploaded to work out what the cab is. Fortunately as noted there are differences in the bandplans between the two vendors that allow a reliable detection in the majority of cases. So certain tones are only used by a particular vendor. For instance Tone 32 is only used by Huawei and Tone 6 by ECI. They are a couple of the obvious ones and just because they are not used in a particular case doesn't offer a definitive answer - they could just be missing. So you have to look at all sorts of tone combinations. There are 12 sets I use at the moment and this gives a 99.5% accurate detection of the cab type.

For an ECI   DSLAM:-
US tones are       6 to 31           882 to 1193 & 1984 to 2770
DS tones are      33 to 857         1218 to 1959 & 2795 to 4083

For a Huawei DSLAM:-
US tones are       7 to 32           871 to 1205 & 1972 to 2782
DS tones are      33 to 859         1216 to 1961 & 2793 to 3970


There is just one user that eludes me and he is currently marked as Huawei  - but the detection says he is ECI. You can often tell just by looking at the Bits/Tone graph - the Huawei's tend to have very small visual gaps between the start and end of the U/S and D/S blocks. ECIs tend to have bigger gaps. The one in question also has bigger gaps making it likely an ECI. BUT it has G.INP enabled which at the moment is probably unlikely for an ECI - but maybe the owner isn't aware of his true cab type! And so on. Until I can sort this I have the change detect turned off.

I've asked the owner for confirmation of the cab type from the DSLStats data (this isn't uploaded currently but might look at doing so later).

Also if the cab is wrong on a decent line, the graph will have BLACK (should only be red and green) bars in places between U/S and D/S where the Tone number isn't in the band plan for the cab type. But depending on the line there may not be any black bars even if the wrong cab type was detected.

The mails that go out notifying G.INP changes can be copied to someone if and when they start on ECI if they want to be the first to know - say j0hn  / skyeci? I had no trouble at all when it was enabled on my ECI - got an extra 9 meg though!
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j0hn

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2017, 01:49:09 PM »

Thank you for the kind words :)
You're very welcome. I think the whole concept/implementation is excellent!
The mails that go out notifying G.INP changes can be copied to someone if and when they start on ECI if they want to be the first to know - say j0hn  / skyeci?
That would be fantastic  ;D
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Chrysalis

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2017, 03:17:31 PM »

so aside from the end of D3, it looks like hawuei cabs are able to handle smaller gaps between the DS and US bands so have effectively more useable tones for bandwidth?

I remember the same on adsl, with BTw.  They have two different vendors and the one that used texas instruments which I think was broadcom based was also able to use more of the tones in close proximity to the US which resulted in a more stable connection on my line.
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j0hn

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2017, 04:48:47 PM »

so aside from the end of D3, it looks like hawuei cabs are able to handle smaller gaps between the DS and US bands so have effectively more useable tones for bandwidth?
That's certainly how I'm reading those ranges. The Huawei has more tones available for almost every band with only D3 having many more tones at the far end on ECI.
With only short lines being able to use these frequencies and the U.K product being capped at 80Mb, they either aren't needed or can't be made use of.
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kitz

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2017, 11:21:19 PM »

I havent checked the figures, but iirc Tony got those figures from the DMT page as I have a vague recollection of a convo a few years back about me having no probs with him using info which can help MDWS users as at the end of the day, we are both trying to help EU's where we can.

Anyways, if so,  its definitely not about them being able to 'handle', it's more about what they decide to set.  Different DSLAM manufacturers have always set very slightly different bandplans.  As long as they are centered around the same stop-band then there is no issue.  They know what the stop-gap is as defined in the TR [whatever # it is] and its up to them to decide how many tones to leave on each side in case of bleed - its more about line stability.   

The most over zealous manufacturer I can think of is the manufacturer of BE MSANs (mental block atm for name), whose MSANs where also in use in other European countries and who decided to block certain HAM tones -  even though they werent an issue in the UK.

So what that ECI decided to block an extra tone each side of the stop gap - its about 8 tones in total.  Even if the line was fully bitloaded on those tones (which they arent because of other things such as PCB and PSD) then youre talking at max 448 kbps. 
In reality even if you have a short line its more like 228kbps, (longer lines will be even less) and I'm ignoring the end tones they could make use of which could give a bit back.
 
Srsly even though I'm on an ECI,  I can think of much worse things to complain about rather than something that averages out somewhere in the region of about 150kbps -  or less for short lines.  ::)
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tbailey2

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2017, 11:22:17 PM »

Just a note that the user I detected was on an ECI cab has confirmed he is - he knows since he says 'I put the tie cables in'  :) 

He is user DSL34 on MDWS...
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 11:25:19 PM by tbailey2 »
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Tony
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tbailey2

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2017, 11:23:53 PM »

I havent checked the figures, but iirc Tony got those figures from the DMT page as I have a vague recollection of a convo a few years back about me having no probs with him using info which can help MDWS users as at the end of the day, we are both trying to help EU's where we can.
Quite correct, thanks.
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kitz

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2017, 11:31:54 PM »

Quote
user DSL34

Something odd about that line according to stats.   Capped at 20/10.  Attainable 54/18
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skyeci

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Re: XdB - Proof of Concept on GEA-FTTC ECI
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2017, 11:36:58 PM »

I don't recall seeing user Semmy who is now showing as g.inp enabled too...
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