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Author Topic: Moving to a better set of Pairs  (Read 2632 times)

cwaite

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Moving to a better set of Pairs
« on: September 13, 2017, 09:11:07 PM »

When I joined plusnet in 2013 I was told I would get an estimated speed of 40mbps (accurate to +/- 1mbps), however today I am getting a sync of 20.7mbps (this has dropped from 25mbs in the last few months), however, my next door neighbour is getting 38.1mbs (increased from 34mbs in the last few months), he is connected to the same cabinet as me, and his dropcable runs along side mine to the Pole across the road.

Plusnet are trying their hardest not to help, just saying that Openreach have changed their estimates and I've got to just live with the speed I am getting however, I am not happy living with half the speed I was expecting, especially knowing nextdoor has near enough the speed I was expecting.

If I can get Plusnet to send out openreach, would it be easy for Openreach to find out which set of pairs, my next door neighbour is connected to and then if there is any spare usable capacity on the set of pairs he is connected to then connect me to the same set of pairs (sorry I dont know what they call the cable that houses the multiple pairs). I am sure my neighbour will allow Openreach access to his master socket if they need to check anything from that.
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RealAleMadrid

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 10:22:53 PM »

There aren't sets of pairs that are better or worse, you just get one pair of wires back to the cabinet and Openreach will never try and find the best one for you, everyone wants the best but it could all change if another FTTC line is enabled and hits you with crosstalk so you have to take what you've got unfortunately. you neighbour is lucky to have a good speed.
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cwaite

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 11:07:36 PM »

So from what you are saying there is just one cable with many sets of pairs that run from the DP to the pole? I was told by an Openreach engineer that there were various cables which contained sets of pairs and they could only connect a certain number of people to each sets of pairs to reduce crosstalk. Did the Openreach engineer feed me a load of bull?

« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:10:31 PM by cwaite »
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RealAleMadrid

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2017, 07:51:34 AM »

There could be a number of multipair cables at the DP but I pretty sure Openreach can do nothing to reduce crosstalk as it caused by interference from cable pairs in close proximity in the cable bundle. Also the cable back to the cabinet may well be a single multipair cable which is likely to be longer than the DP to property distance and the engineer can do nothing about that.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2017, 11:17:35 AM »

There aren't sets of pairs that are better or worse, you just get one pair of wires back to the cabinet and Openreach will never try and find the best one for you, everyone wants the best but it could all change if another FTTC line is enabled and hits you with crosstalk so you have to take what you've got unfortunately. you neighbour is lucky to have a good speed.

Not strictly true.

It depends on where you're own pair of wires are, (within the large cable carrying all the cable pairs), in relation to other pairs that are connected to broadband (DSL).

If for example, your 'pair' is to the left of the cable and only surrounded by EU's who have just telephony service (PSTN), then your X-Talk levels wouldn't be as impactful as a 'pair' connected in the right-hand side of the cable that is surrounded by circuits all carrying DSL.

But, you're right in as much as the 'pair' is the 'pair you are connected to, it would be extremely unusual to try and source a 'quieter' pair within the cable, as this sets a precedent and before long all the right-hand side circuits would get moved to the left and the same scenario occurs. This is why BB is a legacy product in laymans terms. For the most part, whatever pair you were connected to pre-broadband will be the pair you stay with.

 
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cwaite

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 05:11:27 PM »

Do you think crosstalk would have that much of an effect on my broadband, my next door neighbour is syncing 38.1mbps and I am syncing at 20.4mbps, we are definitely both connected to the same cabinet, so I guess we are in the same large cable carrying all the pairs.

PlusNet are trying to arrange an Engineer visit, please could someone have a look at my line stats and tell me if they can see anything obvious to why I am not getting near to my neighbours speed (or the speed I was originally told I would get).

From HG612 Stats logging Program (see link below)
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AuuoQtRhe-fgnpcUbNTgTZ4GAujtlg
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 05:22:06 PM by cwaite »
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j0hn

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 05:33:27 PM »

Your line is banded (capped) at 22.4Mb
If it wasn't then you would get around 27Mb
It needs an OpenReach engineer to do a DLM reset to remove the banding.
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BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin - minted on MDWS via DslStats

ejs

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 07:55:13 PM »

And if nothing else was changed, wouldn't you expect the DLM to return to how it was before the reset?

Are people still using Openreach HG612 modems? How long do you expect them to last?
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j0hn

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 08:43:54 PM »

Banding tends to be applied due to repeated resyncs in a short period of time, either manual resyncs or the cause of a line fault/faulty hardware. DLM sees both the same.

How long has the line been syncing at the same figure of 22.4Mb? It should remove itself, often in stages. We see it "stick" quite often though. That's when OpenReach need to perform a DLM reset. Unless the line has a fault or you have a faulty modem then it shouldn't apply banding again.

The Huawei HG612 is still a well used modem. Granted some will have been in their box for a period of time and purchased on eBay but there's many been running perfectly for years.

There are other chipsets/patch cables that might help the OP sync a little higher but until the current banding is resolved there's not much point pursuing this.

thought I was replying to the OP, edited a little
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 08:48:10 PM by j0hn »
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BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin - minted on MDWS via DslStats

cwaite

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 09:08:46 PM »

Its been like this for around 7 days I think, the sync rate has been falling over the past few months.
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ejs

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 07:18:29 PM »

How long has this particular HG612 been in use for? These type of things are probably built for a life expectancy of about 5 years. Has another modem/router been tried?

If it's been working fine for years, is that supposed to imply it will continue to work fine forever, or that it's now getting old?

Which order are things supposed to be done in, try another modem first, or get Openreach out first?
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cwaite

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 01:10:27 PM »

Yes I do have a Netgear D6220 which was originally plugged in when the sync started dropping, I have plugged my HG612 back in as I can get better stats from this.
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cwaite

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 01:14:27 PM »

Not strictly true.

It depends on where you're own pair of wires are, (within the large cable carrying all the cable pairs), in relation to other pairs that are connected to broadband (DSL).

If for example, your 'pair' is to the left of the cable and only surrounded by EU's who have just telephony service (PSTN), then your X-Talk levels wouldn't be as impactful as a 'pair' connected in the right-hand side of the cable that is surrounded by circuits all carrying DSL.

But, you're right in as much as the 'pair' is the 'pair you are connected to, it would be extremely unusual to try and source a 'quieter' pair within the cable, as this sets a precedent and before long all the right-hand side circuits would get moved to the left and the same scenario occurs. This is why BB is a legacy product in laymans terms. For the most part, whatever pair you were connected to pre-broadband will be the pair you stay with.

 

Do you think that you could have 2 pairs (i.e Mine and my neighbours) within the same set of pairs and crosstalk would cause the 2 different pair to have such a difference in sync speed (i.e mine syncs and 22.4mbps my neighbours syncs at 38.1mbps), or would you think that my neighbour is likely to be connected to a different set of pairs at the DP?
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Black Sheep

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2017, 01:30:24 PM »

I wouldn't know for absolute certain, as my job doesn't allow me to check all pairs within a binder (cable), and cross-reference.

Using my own premises as my only reference, having been responsible for making my neighbours aware of, and subsequently purchasing FTTC products, I can say we're all pretty much the same in terms of speed. We are a group of 5 houses in a cul-de-sac approx. 600mtrs from the Cab. All new 0.5 Cu wires.

If you are in the same cable from Cab to DP (Pole), then I would say the difference you are seeing is not normal. But we would need to be sure you are in the same cable, and also is your neighbour on the 80Meg product and you're on the 40Meg product ?? 
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lee111s

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Re: Moving to a better set of Pairs
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 01:33:16 PM »

40/10 or 80/20 wouldn't make a difference if his line appears, at the moment for whatever reason, capable of way less than 30.

I think the OP needs another engineer visit.
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