Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic: High Retx affects on the IPprofile  (Read 2839 times)

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4682
High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« on: September 10, 2017, 08:06:14 PM »

As that's 91% it could be you're on high retransmission

What is the difference between G.INP High re-transmission and Low re-transmission have seen this cropping up more often here.
lets take two lines one has a INT:4 INP:54 the other line has INT:8 INP:45 which one is high or low ?



Admin:  Split from original thread at - 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 09:15:39 PM by kitz »
Logged

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1426
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2017, 08:22:44 PM »

INP value into the fifties, probably Retransmission High profile.
Interleave depth not useful for distinguishing the two profiles, interleave depth is set to match the DTU size and probably varies with a line's bandwidth more than anything else.
INPRein of 1 or higher on Bearer 0 possibly also a sign of Retransmission High.

There's some irony in that after reducing the target SNRM to increase bandwidth, this can then result in a Retransmission High profile, with a lower IP profile and lower throughput than expected for the line rate that the modem reports.
Logged

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4682
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2017, 08:38:09 PM »

Thanks EJS look I'm not trying to derail this thread just trying to get answers that others may be also asking themselves.

My own Bearer on 0 shows INPRein:  0.00   0.00
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 08:40:38 PM by NewtronStar »
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1041
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2017, 05:37:00 PM »

INPRein of 1 or higher on Bearer 0 possibly also a sign of Retransmission High.
I'm of the opinion this might be right.
Going by my last 5 or 6 resyncs, anytime I have had Bearer 0: INPRein: 0 - I have had an IP profile matching that of retransmittion low.
When I have had Bearer 0: INPRein: 1 - I have had an IP profile matching that of retransmittion high.
Logged
BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin - minted on MDWS via DslStats

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4682
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2017, 07:48:17 PM »

Wish I had this info a year ago was banging my head against a brick wall as to why the IP profile was stuck at 91-92% the INP: was 50-52 and INT:was also stuck at 4, unfortunately don't think i've any records of the INPRein status at that time.
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1041
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2017, 08:24:24 PM »

On my phone so screenshot cuts half the graph off, but I can see you had Bearer 0 - INP-REIN 1 for a few months till mid December. It's been 0 since then. Does that sound about when the IP profile increased? That would certainly add to the theory that INP-REIN on Bearer 0 is an indicator as to what retransmission profile a line is using.

Anyone else able to confirm if they have an IP profile around 91% and INP-REIN is 1 on Bearer 0. Or anyone who can debunk it.
Might be worth splitting the last few posts to their own thread?
Logged
BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin - minted on MDWS via DslStats

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4682
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2017, 08:35:57 PM »

Well done John yes that was before I moved from EE to Vodafone the missing part and back to EE somehow it got stuck on High after G.INP was activated on the upstream for a few days

EDIT: I'll be honest it became stuck when I was testing the BT80 RF3 and wired it up incorrectly and the DLM had already recorded my actions even after I remedy my action  :blush:
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 09:06:34 PM by NewtronStar »
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 30331
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2017, 09:06:10 PM »

Wish I had this info a year ago was banging my head against a brick wall as to why the IP profile was stuck at 91-92% the INP: was 50-52 and INT:was also stuck at 4, unfortunately don't think i've any records of the INPRein status at that time.

iirc I thought we'd already noticed that your 'R' value was higher and therefore the level of redundancy would be higher, which would in turn affect the overhead allowance?

~ NGA FTTC IP Profile

I guess I should also add a note to the other sections such as the calculator to make it clearer. :/  I'll do that later if I get chance.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 30331
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2017, 09:08:53 PM »

On my phone so screenshot cuts half the graph off, but I can see you had Bearer 0 - INP-REIN 1 for a few months till mid December. It's been 0 since then. Does that sound about when the IP profile increased? That would certainly add to the theory that INP-REIN on Bearer 0 is an indicator as to what retransmission profile a line is using.

Anyone else able to confirm if they have an IP profile around 91% and INP-REIN is 1 on Bearer 0. Or anyone who can debunk it.

If that can be confirmed then I willl add that info too.   It could be an easier way to identify for G.INP lines.   
In fact thinking about it for non ginp lines the easy way to id would be if INP >3 ?

Quote
Might be worth splitting the last few posts to their own thread?

I'll do that in a mo.


----
ETA - Thread split as requested.   
Not going to get chance tonight to edit the main site.   Will someone please remind me if I forget.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 09:19:01 PM by kitz »
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1426
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 07:08:43 PM »

iirc I thought we'd already noticed that your 'R' value was higher and therefore the level of redundancy would be higher, which would in turn affect the overhead allowance?

It's unrelated to R. The FEC overhead has already been subtracted to get the "sync speed" (Net Data Rate).

I think non-retransmission, on the high FEC+interleaving setting, can have INP 8, and if they have a higher proportion of FEC data, then the Net Data Rate will be lower, but the IP Profile will still be the usual approx. 96.7% of the Net Data Rate.

There is a table giving the parameters of the retransmission profiles in SIN 498, in section A.4.2.2.8, although the table is possibly incorrect (it gives INPMIN_REIN_RTX of 1 for both low and high retx profiles) or at least does not correspond to what's actually in the live network. But it's possible that the lower 91% IP Profile is factoring in the higher SHINERATIO_RTX.
Logged

lee111s

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 08:42:48 PM »

I have an INP value of 52 with the ~91% IP profile.

Wonder what parameters DLM looks at to change retransmission to low.

Or it is always high with a sub 6 target margin? Mine is 3dB.
Logged

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4682
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 09:43:23 PM »

Or it is always high with a sub 6 target margin? Mine is 3dB.

I would think so as the SNR is lowered the level of background noise also increases so more INP will be needed on that line to overcome errors.
Logged

j0hn

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1041
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 08:40:54 AM »

IP profile is and has been 92.4% for my last 2 sync rates, 5dB then 4dB target. Bearer 0 INP-REIN = 1 still.
Can't see Bearer 0 INP-REIN on MDWS multi-user page so can't see every line but having had a quick look yesterday seems every user I checked that was on a sub 6dB profile had Bearer 0 INP-REIN = 1.

So with Retx low and 6dB target snrm you can have higher throughput than 5dB with Retx high. It's only with the step to 4dB that my throughput/IP profile has increased from what it was with 6dB. Anyone who's line settles on 5dB is likely getting a speed drop, that's well designed.
Logged
BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin - minted on MDWS via DslStats

marjohn56

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 101
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 09:42:52 AM »

I would think so as the SNR is lowered the level of background noise also increases so more INP will be needed on that line to overcome errors.

So is there a balance that can be struck by forcing the modem max sync rate? i.e I am syncing at 74+, but my profile is at 68. Say I forced sync to 72 max, would that result in an increased profile or does this mean that if you go sub 6db you are likely to end up with no effective increase in profile?
Logged

NewtronStar

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 4682
Re: High Retx affects on the IPprofile
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 04:52:10 PM »

Anyone who's line settles on 5dB is likely getting a speed drop, that's well designed.

Unfortunately for me that has come true this morning after sub SNRM took affect at 5dB lower throughput with a higher sync Retransmission High nowhere to go here as the max for this service is 40/10
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
 

anything