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Author Topic: My line might have issues?  (Read 8450 times)

Ixel

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My line might have issues?
« on: August 31, 2017, 12:19:01 PM »

Hi all,
Well, I've got a few problems which may not be local to me necessary but I may as well deal with every possibility. I've recently found that my connection has packet loss in the evening (ISP is Zen), but I can't identify necessarily what's causing it other than noticing a big thread on TBB about Zen and slow single threaded download speeds (which I'm also experiencing).

Anyway, the other day I plugged in the HG612 to see what the QLN, Hlog and other such data was regarding my connection. The moment the HG612 synced I was getting error seconds pretty much every second of uptime. I'm not sure but something is funny with my D3 band, and yes I should've taken a screenshot of the SNRM graph probably prior to capping it so that the modem didn't use much of the D3 band. With all that in mind, I was wondering if maybe someone could help me with interpreting my QLN and Hlog graphs at least (SNRM included but was under capped conditions). See http://imgur.com/a/FBi7z for the graphs.

Question: From the graphs, may I have a possible fault or could this just be a matter beyond my control (e.g. external noise)? Obviously when I was interleaved this problem was pretty much being masked to some degree and I've been interleaved I believe since a day or two after FTTC was installed. I never really gave it any thought until recently when I noticed issues on the D3 band (lots of error seconds and a little fluctuation in the SNR). The homeplugs didn't help with D3 but they are no longer in use and I'm still potentially having problems with D3.

In the meantime Zen are running a continuous ping test on my connection and some other Zen connections at my exchange to identify if there's an exchange end issue (in regards to packet loss and slow single threaded download speeds), hopefully I'll get the results from that later today. ( http://i.imgur.com/TBrMlPW.png )

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Changed topic to be more relevant as I'm more convinced I might have a problem now I observed my SNR fluctuate tonight.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 09:56:58 PM by Ixel »
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kitz

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Re: Need help interpreting some graphs please
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 11:31:16 AM »

Hlog looks fine.

Both SNRM per tone & QLN indicate a noisy line.  QLN shows as well as being noisy what could be quite a lot of crosstalk from several lines. 
I must emphasise the could though because the SNRM is so messy over those tones too...  but if you ignore some of the messiness from tones 3000, it is showing background signs of the familiar x-talk bumps from tone 3300 +. 


Hlog and QLN are only a snapshot in time.  SNRM and bitload are more current.   Looking at your SNRM you definitely appear to have some sort of EMI/RFI centered on tone 1700 and also affecting most of the D3 tones.

Would be interesting to see a closer view of the D3 tones and also the bit loading graph.  I doubt its anything exchange side.  Whilst a red SVLAN may cause slow speeds, it doesnt cause that effect on your graphs.   What are your errors (Err Secs)  like, that could cause slowness and higher latency through packet loss.   
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Ixel

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Re: Need help interpreting some graphs please
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2017, 11:42:03 AM »

Hlog looks fine.

Both SNRM per tone & QLN indicate a noisy line.  QLN shows as well as being noisy what could be quite a lot of crosstalk from several lines. 
I must emphasise the could though because the SNRM is so messy over those tones too...  but if you ignore some of the messiness from tones 3000, it is showing background signs of the familiar x-talk bumps from tone 3300 +. 


Hlog and QLN are only a snapshot in time.  SNRM and bitload are more current.   Looking at your SNRM you definitely appear to have some sort of EMI/RFI centered on tone 1700 and also affecting most of the D3 tones.

Would be interesting to see a closer view of the D3 tones and also the bit loading graph.  I doubt its anything exchange side.  Whilst a red SVLAN may cause slow speeds, it doesnt cause that effect on your graphs.   What are your errors (Err Secs)  like, that could cause slowness and higher latency through packet loss.

I see, thanks. Yeah, if I don't cap the line on the HG612 to avoid using a lot of D3 tones (or cap the max downstream tones to 3000-3100 or so on the ASUS) I get an error second for almost every second of uptime. While capped and using minimal tones in D3 I get a standard small amount of error seconds, perhaps 1 every few minutes at the very least.

Next time I plug the HG612 in, for a few minutes, I'll take a snapshot of the graphs and post them here. Zen have identified a problem at the exchange as some other Zen customers are also getting similar packet loss at the same time my connection is. They're hoping to sort this in a few days.
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Ixel

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Well after Zen originally stated there were packet loss issues with some other Zen connections at my exchange, they have now updated me again. Suffice to say they won't investigate the packet loss further until... well see below.

I've been in contact with Zen again who emailed me to tell me they believe there may be a fault with my line. They wanted permission to run an intrusive line test but when I called I was told they already did one and the GEA test passed but something came back with 'possible copper line fault'.

I've been asked to leave the HG612 plugged into the test socket via a microfilter until next week at which point they'll get back to me and possibly ask me to switch to the DrayTek. I'm accumulating lots of error seconds (ES per hour average is 1941 downstream according to DSLstats). I'm also uploading my stats to mydslwebstats (username Ixel). My problems appear to be coming from the D3 band.

When they call me back next week they might also want me to switch back to the DrayTek. However, right now I'm fastpath and DLM will surely kick in tonight so I don't see how that'll be a fair test/comparison since I will most likely be interleaved and the underlying problem as such will be masked by the interleaving.

Mydslwebstats is now getting stats of my uncapped connection. Funnily enough I did notice a slight hissing in the background when I first called this morning, but I wasn't sure if that was perhaps my Gigaset phone. Either way it disappeared soon enough and the hiss was rather faint. However back to my connection I've got lots of error seconds accumulating now I'm no longer capping the downstream sync rate.

The username is Ixel, if anyone can offer feedback please I'd appreciate it.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 10:40:09 AM by Ixel »
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Ixel

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 09:57:11 PM »

Interesting...

Well I just noticed my SNR fluctuating, also my D3 band on the SNR graph looks horrific from this morning's sample. Just a moment ago I had a fluctuating SNR and after doing a QLT (no noise) suddenly it's stabilised. Surely this isn't right, there must be a fault? I've lost 1 dB downstream SNR however (down to 5 or so now) rather suddenly from 6 dB.

http://i.imgur.com/Tvrbrm9.png

Also on MDWS as Ixel.

Any thoughts?

EDIT: Here's D3 band looking awful before I did a QLT - http://i.imgur.com/mDcFQdG.png.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 10:53:52 PM by Ixel »
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Dray

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 10:21:13 PM »

EDIT: Nevermind, the SNR graph doesn't show on MDWS, I was looking at DSLstats when I saw something very bad on D3.
Yes it does
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Ixel

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 10:53:15 PM »

Yes it does

Woops, sorry, stand corrected. I see it in the historic section :), thanks!

http://i.imgur.com/mDcFQdG.png
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Dray

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 11:18:43 PM »

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Ixel

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2017, 11:59:25 PM »

I meant

https://imgur.com/a/IFDp3

Oh, I see, yeah. Well hopefully tomorrow I can eliminate any internal devices causing this kind of interference as I have a SW (short wave) radio coming :). Can tune up to 29999 KHz (almost 30 MHz) down to something like 2000 KHz in 1 KHz steps, as well as the MW (medium wave) for the ADSL2 frequency range pretty much. But obviously what interests me the most are the problematic frequency ranges in the D3 band.

I guess I'll tell Zen about my findings tomorrow on the SNR graphs from this evening and see what they have to say, hopefully I'll have done my checking with the radio before they get back to me as arranged. In the meantime if anyone has anything to add, such as whether this could be an indication of a line fault then please do say. Thanks.
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Ixel

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 11:53:07 AM »

I've got my Tecsun radio this morning and did a check around the frequencies that were severely affected yesterday evening for a short time but when I'm near the master socket I get very little noise other than from the modem (of course), I've noticed some noise coming from the UPS which is probably the closest thing to the master socket area so I'll eliminate that by turning it off temporarily. Hopefully I can just switch it over to mains only and it will stop generating noise. One other nearby appliance is my computer equipment, it's under a metal loft bed so maybe the metal frame of the loft bed is acting as an antenna enough for the phone wiring along the outside wall or master socket to pick this up? Only way to be sure would be to turn off the PC but then the stats will stop being monitored too so that's a catch 22. I'll try the UPS first and go from there. I'm also thinking of changing my DrayTek for a Ubiquiti EdgeRouter to ensure there's zero doubt that there's a performance problem here that's causing packet loss. Just seems like I'm spending a fair bit of money though in order to eliminate everything my end, I honestly can't believe the DrayTek has an issue.

EDIT 1: Unfortunately UPS made no difference. I'm almost out of ideas now, as it seems on here too. I'll discontinue updating the thread as there's currently no further input and hope to resolve this with Zen or alternatively A&A if I have to migrate and if they feel they're more able to rectify this anomaly. Thanks to those who tried to help me.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 03:05:03 PM by Ixel »
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LordSven

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 04:12:01 PM »

Good luck in resolution. It would be good to know the cause when you get to the bottom of it. Could I ask which model Tecsun you went for please?
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Ixel

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 05:27:25 PM »

Good luck in resolution. It would be good to know the cause when you get to the bottom of it. Could I ask which model Tecsun you went for please?

Thanks. The radio is a Tecsun PL-660. Yeah, I sent the graphs to Zen this afternoon after they called me, hopefully they'll be more convinced that there might be a line fault. I'm expecting to hear from them again tomorrow. The SNR swing is far worse this afternoon and is currently ongoing, I've not been able to identify anything near the phone wiring or master socket so far which is causing this.

http://i.imgur.com/GBW4XG6.png or see MDWS for a more recent version.
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j0hn

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 06:08:01 PM »

Can you take a screenshot of BitSwaps per tone in DslStats. Might help narrow down problems in the D3 band. I don't think that data is on MDWS.
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Ixel

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 06:17:36 PM »

Can you take a screenshot of BitSwaps per tone in DslStats. Might help narrow down problems in the D3 band. I don't think that data is on MDWS.

Sure, added it to http://imgur.com/a/yMYxg - should be at the bottom of the page. It's from yesterday evening some time after the SNR fluctuation occurred.
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Ixel

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Re: My line might have issues?
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2017, 10:10:39 AM »

Looks like my error seconds have shot up again, I'm expecting DLM to intervene tomorrow. At least currently I'm getting rather close to the threshold on the 'speed' DLM profile. I've been unsuccessful in identifying if something internal causing this, I have no extension wiring either. Currently waiting for a call from Zen today to see what they have to say about the SNR fluctuations and large quantities error seconds I'm getting.
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