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Author Topic: Any value ... ??  (Read 12113 times)

Black Sheep

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 10:08:08 AM »

It is a HH5A. Yeah, I shall continue to look on a daily basis to see what happens next.  :)

Chrys ............ ha ha ...... if it stops me watching 'Homeland' due to dropping connection, I'll find Rambo personally and throttle him. I'll draw 'first blood'.  ;) :)
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kitz

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2017, 10:43:17 AM »

We all just need to become engineers and we'd never have DLM  issues again.

A far better option would be to give the ISP ability to set certain parameters - its only the NGA DLM that is so rigid with no configuration options available.
20CN/21CN and other ISP DLMs give flexibility such as Interleave On/Off.  Target SNRM & INP level options are also available to ISPs such as TT.

In BlackSheeps case rather than having a full reset which 'cost' 20Mbps, it would perhaps have been better if he could have limited the target SNRM to not drop below say 5dB.   From BS's comments it would appear the line behaved perfectly fine with G.INP until it got a target SNRM of 3dB.

Both Dray and Jelv are correct. 

Drays suggestion of capping the line would probably work in BlackSheeps case whereby he had no problems until he got the lower Target SNRm
Based on a previous sync of 60Mbps at a Target SNRM of 3dB, but setting a max sync speed of 50Mbps in the modem that would increase the SNRm and ensure that the line didn't fall below 6dB. 

Jelv is correct that 80/40 etc are artificial caps that suffice to increase the SNRm.   However Jelv's issue with the Central Heating being switch on/off sounds like it was possibly SHINE rather than REIN. 
G.INP doesn't work well on all types of noise which is why Openreach still has Interleaving as a backup if G.INP doesnt work out. 
The reason why the Zyxel has probably worked so well for Jelv is that unlike most other modems it has an internal noise filter.

Chrys also makes a valid point, by performing a reset eventually G.INP will be re-applied and the line will resettle back at around 50Mbps.   Historically BS's line has always worked well at 6dB and DLM will be happy.   So happy that it will then start reducing the target SNRm again.   When it gets to 3dB then BS wont be too happy because he sees some line drops.   If he resets DLM at this point then you can get into a fighting the DLM cycle.
If left alone for a while DLM should in theory spot those line drops and the Errors that no doubt will come with it, it should then increase the target SNRm by itself to a more stable level.
All this messing around could so easily be avoided if Openreach gave some control with the params. 

I'm currently having a fight with DLM, you will see just the other day yet again I had to turn my modem off.   This is because 99.9% of the time it works fine at default, but every few days or so there is a massive surge in errors that triggers DLM penalisation of 10Mbps.   Yet by the time DLM spots it and takes action the line is already back to normal and doesnt need DLM action.
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atkinsong

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2017, 10:43:42 AM »

If you have a look at the BT Community forums, it would appear that a firmware update to the HH 5A which was rolled out in early July is causing a lot of stability issues to a lot of people.
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dambuilder

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 10:45:20 AM »

Stability is easily achieved wirh a HG612 modem by capping the sync speed.

How do you cap sync on a HG612?
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Black Sheep

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 10:46:39 AM »

If you have a look at the BT Community forums, it would appear that a firmware update to the HH 5A which was rolled out in early July is causing a lot of stability issues to a lot of people.

Ah really ??? thanks for the info.  :)
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kitz

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2017, 10:51:35 AM »

It is a HH5A. Yeah, I shall continue to look on a daily basis to see what happens next.  :)

It takes me a long time to type anything these days because of my hand & arm.  Seeing the "a reply has been posted" as I hit send for the above post @ 10:08 has made me realise just how long it does take me to post anything these days.   Previously I would have been able to rattle a post like the above off in a few minutes, yet from the post times it took me at least 45 mins to type a simplish reply.   :(

Anyhow the point of this post is, if you can get your hands on a HH5B I would do.
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kitz

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2017, 10:56:17 AM »

How do you cap sync on a HG612?

See the sticky post at the top of this section - Speed capping and ES rates on a moderately noisy line

This method also works on other modems such as the Zyxels and Billions.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2017, 12:08:52 PM »

48hrs in and no change to DLM, (as probably expected) ??
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tubaman

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2017, 12:18:28 PM »

Black Sheep, Can any of us get a Profile History like that or is it your special powers that allow it?
 ;)
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Chrysalis

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2017, 12:50:26 PM »

To me this new dynamic DS SNRM DLM seems problematic, probably as a result of people constantly begging for every last mbit out of their lines.  It needs to be way more conservative, perhaps only dropping the profile if its less than 10 ES a day and 0 retrains, if even slight instability occurs it should then blacklist the profile in my opinion.

It raised BS's retransmission instead of reverting to a higher SNRM, he noticed a problem and had to intervene.
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Dray

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 01:47:06 PM »

Is this saying that BT are trying G.Inp on the HH5A? If so I agree with Kitz you should try a HH5B. Or front-end the HH5A with a HG612 modem.
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Black Sheep

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2017, 04:43:47 PM »

Black Sheep, Can any of us get a Profile History like that or is it your special powers that allow it?
 ;)

LOL .......... it's only 'cos I is mates with Lex Luther that I can see this stuff, tubaman ...... sorry bud.  :'( :) :)
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j0hn

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2017, 04:58:03 PM »

Is this saying that BT are trying G.Inp on the HH5A? If so I agree with Kitz you should try a HH5B. Or front-end the HH5A with a HG612 modem.
It's always worked on the HH5A. It's only the downstream though. It's 1 of the modems that made OpenReach turn G.INP off by default on the upstream.
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kitz

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2017, 06:43:03 PM »

Black Sheep, Can any of us get a Profile History like that or is it your special powers that allow it?
 ;)

I think the ISP may also have access to this info if they want.
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kitz

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Re: Any value ... ??
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2017, 06:45:50 PM »

It needs to be way more conservative, perhaps only dropping the profile if its less than 10 ES a day and 0 retrains, if even slight instability occurs it should then blacklist the profile in my opinion.

Bit harsh.   Many lines can get 10 E/Secs just during the initialisations stage of sync. I'm currently getting on average 10 Err/Secs per hour and dont even notice. If they are spread out over the course of the day I don't think anyone would notice.   Its only when you get a block together of say 10 in 20 secs that you start noticing.

Quote
It raised BS's retransmission instead of reverting to a higher SNRM,

It was just reversing the previous downstream state - Look at no 5.   3 & 4 were changes to the upstream.
Seems logicalish to me...  but it would appear DLM wasnt liking something on the upstream which in theory shouldn't be affected by the downstream SNRm

Downstream

4dB Retransmission High  (6)
3dB Retransmission High  (5)
3dB Retransmission Low   (4)
3dB Retransmission High  (2)


Upstream

Error Protection Off    (6)
Retransmission Low   (3)
Retransmission High   (2)

If you follow the downstream pattern, next step would have been to take it back up to 4dB Retransmission High, where it was at the beginning.
The question is what was going on with the upstream???

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