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Author Topic: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line  (Read 644 times)

ardsar

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All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« on: July 15, 2017, 09:34:42 AM »

My line suffers from interference at night, which causes the s/n to drop by about 0.5 to 1db at night. With the hg612 this loss is recovered in the morning.

I've now been using the hg612 for over a year with no issues. Previous to this I had tried combos from netgear and billion, all of which suffered the same problem and caused my line to become banded. Had the banding removed last year by an engineer as the banding was at 22M. Now currently syncing at 26M. I'm uploading to mydslwebstats for those interested profile is ardsar.

Yesterday I tried a zyxel vmg3925-b and initial impressions were good - excellent download sync. However I then noticed this devices was behaving the same as the netgear and billion devices - constant reduction in S/N. When I had this problem with netgear, they pointed out that this behaviour is due to Broadcom implementation and assume this is why all new modems with latest Broadcom chipsets have this issue on my line. Basically the bins are marked as unusable and over time the number of npbins reduce. I end up with large gaps appearing in the bit loading graphs. Only a resync will re-enable these bins.

I've removed the zyxel as I don't want to become banded again. However does this mean that I can not use any new products without my sync speed degrading over time? I'm ok using the hg612 at the moment, but there will come a time when it will need to be changed,

Any advice, suggestions.


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Dray

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 10:06:12 AM »

The problem is down to a noisy line. What's causing the noise?
Can you use a timer plug to power off the modem for 30 minutes daily?
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ardsar

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 11:25:34 AM »

The problem is down to a noisy line. What's causing the noise?
Can you use a timer plug to power off the modem for 30 minutes daily?

No idea what causes the noise but it always seems to start a few hours before dusk and recovers before sunrise. Summertime it starts around 6 or 7pm currently worse at 10pm and then improves. In the winter it starts around 3pm. 

It's always been like this and newer devices just make matters worse.



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ardsar

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 11:27:52 AM »

Apart from the HG612, only the old Billion bipac 8800 has perfromed ok with no reduction in S/N.

Netgear D7000, Billion 8900 have previously been tried - all with the same issue.

So i either stick with what i have or upgrade to a new device a suffer the consequence of reduced speed and the wrath of DLM.

The noise is external to the house - nothing i can do about it.
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skyeci

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 11:41:05 AM »

I have had the same issue. There is rein affecting my line. OR have spent time looking at it but unable to resolve.

I have had large swings in snr and multiple resyncs with loss of speed and gradual reduction in ds snr.

At the moment I returned to my vmg8324 in bridge mode and capped it manually about 2mb lower than the highest the line would appear to take. I capped the modem before the cycle of noise/snr loss starts. So far so good. Its been stable for a little while now with no large swings and has kept my preset cap. Attainable has been just above sync or on it so for now it seems to be working for a change.

My snr is now between 6.3 and 5.9 which seems fine at the moment.

Perhaps manually capping the modem might help you.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:43:06 AM by skyeci »
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NewtronStar

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 05:04:21 PM »

If you look on MDWS you will find a lot of Users see a reduction of DS SNRM in the evening time and a rise in the morning used HG612 HH5a BB2 and that Vodafone modem and currently 8800NL all show the same thing not much you can do about as it's atmospherically induced not going to go into the fine details here.

Would be interested to see if this only effects users with a aerial drop cable  :-\
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ardsar

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 06:24:47 PM »

Cable is underground in my case.

Why has broadcom changed the behaviour? Previously these bins were not disabled so that when interference stoped they could be reused - hence the recovery of s/n by morning.

Fully understand atmospheric induced noise and radio China lol
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NewtronStar

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 06:50:18 PM »

Would you be able tell us the tone numbers that are effected? 
I know a few time in the past the 8800NL marked out a chuck of tones and only a reboot of the modem brought them back as being usable.
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Chrysalis

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 11:27:16 PM »

ardar what you described is I believe how dsl modems have worked for several years, back in my adsl days when the darkness wiped out my hgiher tones, they would stay off for the remainder of the sync.

There has been recent threads made by weaver asking about this issue, and I think someone told him that certian chipsets will re enable the tones, and there was a technical word for it but I forgot what it is.

I expect the reason most chipsets keep them off is its considered less stable to reuse tones that keep becoming unuseable due to variances in noise levels.
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andyfitter

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2017, 12:07:38 AM »

Bitswap?
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Chrysalis

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j0hn

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 04:35:52 AM »

I believe you're thinking of "monitored tones". It was a feature he was lacking in a modem he was testing. I recall ejs explaining it a bit further.
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Chrysalis

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 01:15:37 PM »

yep thats the name :)
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ejs

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2017, 09:08:52 AM »

If all new Broadcom chipset based devices have the same behaviour, wouldn't the logical next step be to try something based on another manufacturer's chipset? There might not be any ready made stats monitoring software for them, but you could either find something that gives a decent amount of stats, and maybe even make your own stats collecting system, or just stop monitoring the stats.
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ardsar

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Re: All New Modem / routers cause issues on my line
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2017, 03:32:01 PM »

I'll stick with the hg612 as it's the only modem that will give me a good speed and recover the bad tones from the overnight period. In the past I just left the netgear d7000 alone to see what would happen s/n dropped to 2db after a couple of weeks.


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