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Author Topic: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM  (Read 2098 times)

kitz

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2017, 08:48:55 PM »

How long has it been looping for?  Ive tried to look on MDWS but it doesnt got back far enough.
Does the length of time before it puts you back down to 3dB increase?

EG - My line has some sort of weird noise error.  It can be fine for a while then it will kick off with a high error rate for a few hours and DLM intervenes.. and then it will be ok again for a while.
What I have noticed is that each time its taking slightly longer for DLM to remove INP.
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kitz

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2017, 08:55:08 PM »

It could learn so e.g. 3 failed attempts blacklists the line from 3db until a DLM reset. Stability is king over performance.

In my case Im glad that it doesn't.  The errors only seem to reach exceeding high rates for a few hours every month or so.   I haven't found an exact reason why it should do this, but on several of them it has either been after a remote resync or a cross-talker resync.
The length of time before it removes INP is definitely increasing though, so I guess there still is a possibility that at some stage I hit a point where it may not reverse. :/
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banger

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2017, 09:27:15 PM »

@Kitz my 5dB target started at 10 am April 25, and reduced every 3 days to 3dB but then went back up to 4dB and stayed up for about 12 days before trying again. Then 3dB for about half a day then back to 4 and the cycle repeats. Doesn't stay long on 3dB because of the amount of ES.
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Tim
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Asus DSL-N55U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80 Meg TTB Fibre

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Chrysalis

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2017, 02:20:20 AM »

Yeah that would drive me nuts and make me report it as a fault, as I cannot have my line dropping out like that.

Thankfully I am banded so if this ever comes to ECI and if I stay banded, then the line wouldnt sync below 4db anyway.
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Chrysalis

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 02:22:36 AM »

In my case Im glad that it doesn't.  The errors only seem to reach exceeding high rates for a few hours every month or so.   I haven't found an exact reason why it should do this, but on several of them it has either been after a remote resync or a cross-talker resync.
The length of time before it removes INP is definitely increasing though, so I guess there still is a possibility that at some stage I hit a point where it may not reverse. :/

I think you should be banded at 67 and you keep fast path all the time then :) I see you back on fast path now synced at just under 74mbit.

Of course Openreach fixing whatever is causing the error surges on your line is the best option but I think banding is second best option.
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kitz

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 08:17:32 PM »

DLM doesnt always work like that though.   Most times if you are banded you are also lumbered with INP too...  or at least for a good portion of the time. :(

With the error rate only going through the roof for a few hours per month, I would much rather DLM left me alone.   By the time the DLM has taken action, the line has usually sorted itself and errors are back under control again.   Its one of the reasons why I wouldnt like to be with an ISP that uses the standard profile otherwise I would be unlikely to get rid of INP.

Currently the line blips with errors for say an hour or so, it corrects itself and is ok again.   Next day DLM takes action because it detected a large amount of errors for those 2 hours.  Is does not take into account that error rate is back to normal.  Instead I have to wait for 'x' stable days before it removes it. 

Banding wouldnt help.    I suspect because the errors do run into many 10's of thousands that it would still affect me if I was banded.
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Chrysalis

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2017, 02:10:42 PM »

DLM hit me today, not quite sure why tho.

1 - I didnt exceed the ES rate (changes afoot on DLM systems?)
2 - was caused by a storm wide area event

Of course I agree with you on the delayed action thing, which I have always agreed with, DLM doesnt act whilst the ES are high, acts the next day instead and then delays whilst there is no ongoing problems, I expect I will be back on fast path in a couple of weeks, but of course have lost the 74mbit sync which I wont get back without another power cut.

--edit--

web browsing noticeably slower, awaiting fast path again.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 03:20:04 PM by Chrysalis »
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Darren

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2017, 05:46:26 PM »

Dropped to 5dB in Feb but it lowered again this last week. However IPProfile is not increasing as much as it should be and on the 10th the thoughput was reduced aswell causing a double wammy.

Code: [Select]
SNRM  Max    Sync            IPProfile       Throughput  Date
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
6.3   71284  70470 (3.31%)   68.14 (3.61%)   65.76
5.3   71212  75379 (3.42%)   72.88 (3.34%)   70.52       21 Feb 2017 00:33
5.3   74032  74791 (8.85%)   68.71 (2.82%)   66.82       08 Jun 2017 14:41
4.2   77192  77899 (8.75%)   71.63 (7.21%)   66.81       10 Jun 2017 05:02
3.3   80812  79999 (7.96%)   74.1  (3.73%)   71.43       12 Jun 2017 05:16

Last time I had full sync was 2012:

Code: [Select]
6.3   81196  79999 (3.31%)   77.43 (2.77%)   75.34       26 Jun 2012
I believe max IPProfile for a G.INP enabled line is 77.35 but I'm sitting at 74.1 instead.

Not too bothered about the few meg of missing throughput but if the IPProfile is lower than it should be then DLM is getting a false reading of the line performance. I'm worried it will throw a complete wobbly if the IPProfle decides to sort itself out.

Anyone else seen their IPProfile lower than usual with these lower SNRM targets?
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banger

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2017, 04:48:59 PM »

So DLM is toying with me and put my target inexplicably back to 5dB with a couple of sync loss of sync. Can't understand no disconnections ES DS is zero but US ES is about 10 a day so maybe that is why?
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Tim
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Asus DSL-N55U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80 Meg TTB Fibre

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/1499348399230927055

ejs

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #24 on: June 17, 2017, 05:34:39 PM »

Anyone else seen their IPProfile lower than usual with these lower SNRM targets?

I missed this earlier, but the lower IP Profile percentage will probably be due to a "Retransmission High" profile rather than directly due to the lower target SNRM. See here for example.

The DLM will not be using the IP Profile value to measure the line's performance.
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NewtronStar

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2017, 09:03:34 PM »

So DLM is toying with me and put my target inexplicably back to 5dB with a couple of sync loss of sync. Can't understand no disconnections ES DS is zero but US ES is about 10 a day so maybe that is why?

Could it be that a crosstalker has been added and this is what to expect when on the Xdb profile
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NewtronStar

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2017, 10:43:07 PM »

This 6-3dB target margin profile is giving me doubts about a certain VDSL modem Billion 8800 we know this modem does it's best to gain extra sync from the SNR Bits/tones, Just looking at a few 8800NL since they got 3dB the SNRM has become very spiky 1-3 dB.

It could be just me seeing something that is quite normal and yes the DS SNRM does jump about a bit on the 8800 by 0.3 to 0.7dB is the billion firmware up to the job for lower SNR target margins ? 
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banger

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2017, 11:03:44 PM »

@NewtronStar not sure if a cross-talker has affected it but I would expect to see DS ES if that is the case which I do see if the target goes to 3dB then ES in 1000s. But it has been quite stable at 4dB with zero ES and a fairly good sync of 71 then it all changed with sync dropping to 67 and target going up to 5. No ES for days now, strange.

I can't imagine an installation on a Saturday when the sync dropped but who knows.
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Tim
www.uno.net.uk & freenetname
Asus DSL-N55U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80 Meg TTB Fibre

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/1499348399230927055

NewtronStar

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2017, 11:13:48 PM »

lets see when my line go's FTTC active from a change of provider it occurred in the small hours from 4am to 5am the last one happened at 2pm so it can be at anytime.
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banger

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Re: DLM has put me on a 3 dB (ish) target SNRM
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2017, 01:08:08 AM »

I know but a new cross-talker would require a connection in the cabinet and that would most likely be in daylight hours not talking migration from provider to provider. That doesn't require physical work at the cabinet just the flick of a virtual switch as far as I am aware.
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Tim
www.uno.net.uk & freenetname
Asus DSL-N55U and ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A Bridge on 80 Meg TTB Fibre

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/1499348399230927055
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