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Author Topic: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband  (Read 2278 times)

freelander

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Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« on: May 11, 2017, 07:11:45 AM »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-37705435

Switzerland is the first country in Europe to deliver so-called ultrafast broadband to customers through traditional copper infrastructure, according to service provider Swisscom.
It said 1,000 customers were now using a G.fast connection, which can reach speeds of 500Mbps.
G.fast lets copper cables carry data at faster speeds than before.
In the UK, BT's Openreach has been trialling G.fast technology, but customers can not yet buy packages

Hope this is ok here
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Black Sheep

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 07:38:13 AM »

TBH, I'm rather chuffed that other countries are sharing the limelight regarding G.fast technologies. It hopefully puts readers minds at rest that it's not a 'dead in the water' technology, as some would have you believe.

The only other slight point is ..... this is hardly breaking news, as the item was published almost 7 months ago !!  ;) ;D
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Ronski

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 01:24:37 PM »

There is a lot of life in g.fast so long as they roll out much further into the network, and get that copper/aluminium as short as possible.

Quote
While Openreach is rolling out G.fast to its street cabinets, a continuation of its FTTC approach, Swisscom said it was hoping to install distribution points within 200m of homes

The Swiss know, I wonder if they have actually rolled out that close to homes though,  given its seven months on now.

Quote is from the article linked to in the first post.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 03:23:48 PM »

Its all down to the loop length.

e.g. how would have FTTC been received by the public if it was only rolled out from the exchange or cabinets outside the exchange.

There is nothing ground breaking or innovative about these new variants of DSL, for the most part they simply just enable higher frequencies that have always been there to use.

The real and prime reason for improvements is the addition of fibre to the loop to shorten the distance dependent copper.  The design of g.fast would have been under the assumption it would be deployed closer to the home than VDSL, this is also evident by the fact BT had to get the spec changed so it suited their business model of deploying from VDSL cabinets.
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WWWombat

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 11:12:25 AM »

Actually, I think Telecom Austria beat both of them to the first proper subscriber.

Swisscom are in good shape for G.Fast: they already had a "Fibre To The Street, FTTS" model, where they were getting fibre within 200m of properties, but using VDSL2 DSLAMs. A model that lies somewhere inbetween BT's "Cab" model for VDSL2, and a pure FTTdp model.

Swisscom's intention, with Alcatel hardware, was for their current VDSL2 DSLAMs to be plug-compatible with a future G.Fast model. A drop-in replacement, hardware-wise. Not sure what will happen to existing subscriber packages though.

this is also evident by the fact BT had to get the spec changed so it suited their business model of deploying from VDSL cabinets.

G.Fast itself didn't need much of a change to suit BT's longer ranges - just a higher aggregate power allowance, and bit-loadings of 13 or 14 (*). There were bigger changes needed in the business plans for DPUs - the nodes running G.Fast. Longer ranges imply more subscribers, more ports, higher vectoring demands ... and chipset designers needed to adjust their plans.

I suspect that BT don't intend for G.Fast to be *only* from the existing cabinets. In fact, the ANFP changes have been designed to cope with a multi-layered solution.

I suspect that  BT really changed from a DP-centric focus to one very similar to Swisscom's FTTS: their own "inbetween" variant. It is obvious that phase 1 of an inbetween variant starts with the existing cabs anyway.


(*) - These changes went through as part of amendment 2 of G.Fast. It created a new profile 106b for this purpose.

It looks like amendment 3 went through last month, which properly introduced a 212MHz profile, something for G.Fast to run on coax, and added the ability to dynamically shift bandwidth between downstream and upstream. I'm not sure if the latter is coax-only, or works on twisted-pairs too; the ITU specs are still locked away.
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PhilipD

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 08:30:53 AM »

Hi

Its all down to the loop length.

e.g. how would have FTTC been received by the public if it was only rolled out from the exchange or cabinets outside the exchange.

There is nothing ground breaking or innovative about these new variants of DSL, for the most part they simply just enable higher frequencies that have always been there to use.

The real and prime reason for improvements is the addition of fibre to the loop to shorten the distance dependent copper.  The design of g.fast would have been under the assumption it would be deployed closer to the home than VDSL, this is also evident by the fact BT had to get the spec changed so it suited their business model of deploying from VDSL cabinets.

Exactly, and is also party why it is slow to arrive.  The G.Fast equipment manufacturers designed all the hardware to be small with smaller numbers of ports (supporting say 16 customers), because it was only ever conceived it would be brought much closer to the premises.  Now the manufacturers are faced with redesigning the equipment to support 96 ports or more demanded by BT, the issue here is implementing effective vectoring over the whole frequency range over 96 connections of considerably variable distances.  How effective or reliable this will all be, well remains to be seen. 

What BT are giving us is known as Long Range G.Fast.  Luckily for BT, because the only people to benefit from greater speeds are those already close to the same cabinet that G.Fast will be attached to, already get pretty good speeds so aren't likely to move in their masses to G.Fast, so having cabinets that only support a few dozens ports probably isn't going to be a problem!

The main problem is all the investment BT are making into G.Fast is a waste of money, it does nothing to bring fibre closer to our homes, doesn't benefit anyone currently in the slow lane, and we all know inevitably it is fibre to our homes we will have.

Regards

Phil
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adslmax

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 01:51:18 AM »

I would welcome Openreach of g.fast because I am 243.6 metres away from the street cabinet. g.fast loop length of 250 metres would get me 150 Meg. Faster enough for now.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 01:53:59 AM by adslmax »
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skyeci

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 06:03:59 AM »

Mums cab1 connected to the combe down exchange in Bath has just had the gfast pod installed. I note the next pcp along has also been done as well but cabs a bit further away currently have no pod. Be interesting to see whats offered when its available.
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KIAB

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 06:55:50 PM »

Three engineers were wiring up a G Fast pod to Cabinet 35 on Pultney Road, junction of Lime Grove Bath (BA2 4HD) yesterday.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 07:34:33 PM by KIAB »
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skyeci

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 07:36:08 PM »

rather liked this OR have recently installed next to the new development at what was MOD foxhill site etc...pretty close to combe down exchange.
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KIAB

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 08:04:27 PM »

Will have a look tomorrow at the old MOD site on Warminster Road,now the Holburne Park development (BA2 6SF) & see what been put in.

No mention what  will be available FTTC/FTTP/FTTP on demand in brochure, only Cat 5 data points. :silly:

Brochure: http://search.savills.com/list/newhomes-for-sale/england/bath-and-north-east-somerset/bath/ba1?_ga=2.88008216.184672419.1499454114-691357837.1499454114#/r/detail/gbbardbrd170021#fpCarousel
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 08:22:32 PM by KIAB »
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skyeci

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 08:15:00 PM »

Not sure what exchange they would be on- kingsmead?
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KIAB

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 08:19:55 PM »

Kingsmead.
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skyeci

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2017, 08:28:24 PM »

Nice - cat 5  ;D  ;)

A long way from kingsmead out there...
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 08:31:34 PM by skyeci »
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KIAB

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Re: Swiss beat UK's BT to next-gen G.fast broadband
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2017, 08:35:41 PM »

I'm at Bathampton on Cab 39 & still Kingsmead, & it has FTTPoD available. :silly: totally useless, who can afford it. :sob:
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