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Author Topic: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)  (Read 552 times)

Sniper

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Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« on: April 15, 2017, 05:27:07 PM »

Hi guys

I recently switched out my BT Smart Hub (6) for Draytek Vigor 130 so I could use USG Security Gateway.

It all went well for the first day, the sync speed was same and download speeds great but the next say I lost some speed.

It was syncing at 79999 down / 20000 up, now is down to 73999/20000.

I had BT HomeHub 5 in the past that performed the same as the new BT hub in terms of sync speed.

I've attached 3 files showing various stats;

  • bt-smart-hub.png - BT lacks detailed stats, this is from the advanced info section, 80/20 on basic tab
  • 130-1.png; adsl status stats
  • 130-2.png; adsl status more stats

Doing a bit of research suggests i am on a ECI cabinet (IFTN vendor from adsl status).

Should I buy a Openreach modem instead, would that likely restore the sync speed?

Its not the biggest of issues but considering I was at full speed for the last 3+ years it would be nice to have it back.

I tried changing the SNR value (-50) like someone had mentioned on Ubiquiti forums but made no difference, it always reports the value at around 8 (unless I'm reading the adsl status report wrong).

Thanks for the help.
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ejs

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 05:58:19 PM »

For whatever reason, it looks like the DLM has applied a banded profile capping the downstream speed at 74Mb. So nothing you can do will immediately restore the speed, but if you remove the problem, the DLM might eventually remove the banding.

There are many Broadcom chipset based VDSL2 modem/routers that can be configured for use as a modem, rather than buying an Openreach Huawei modem. Presumably an Openreach ECI modem would have similar performance to the Draytek, which both use Lantiq chipsets.

One odd thing about those stats is that you appear to have retransmission (G.INP) active, although that was disabled on ECI cabinets a while ago, last we heard Openreach were still working on enabling it again for ECI cabinets, but they haven't yet done so.
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gt94sss2

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 06:21:54 PM »

Your attainable data rate on the 130 seems much higher than the Smart Hub which leads me to think that g.inp may not be active..

Was your Home Hub 5 a A or B model? (They used different chipsets)
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burakkucat

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 06:23:11 PM »

Welcome to the Kitz forum.  :)

I've also taken a look at the information you have provided and, yes, I agree with ejs that it appears your circuit has been banded.

I always have trouble understanding exactly what Draytek devices are showing. ATU-C and ATU-R are perfectly understandable but what is the meaning of "Near End" and "Far End" under the ATU-R heading?  :-\

I recently switched out my BT Smart Hub (6) for Draytek Vigor 130 so I could use USG Security Gateway.

Perhaps I am missing something but as the Vigor 130 does not seem to be performing as you would like and you mention purchasing a different device, then why not just reinstate the BT SH6 ?
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vic0239

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 06:39:08 PM »

I always have trouble understanding exactly what Draytek devices are showing. ATU-C and ATU-R are perfectly understandable but what is the meaning of "Near End" and "Far End" under the ATU-R heading?  :-\
I had the same difficulty when I was the brief owner of two Vigor 130 devices and found the following explanation on the (login required) DrayTek web site.

Code: [Select]
How to check detailed ADSL / VDSL line statistics

Basic Line Statistics
To show the more basic line statistics, enter "vdsl status" (or "adsl status" for an ADSL line)
It will show this output, details of each heading are listed below:
> vdsl status
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
   Running Mode            :      17A       State                : SHOWTIME
   DS Actual Rate          : 79995000 bps   US Actual Rate       : 19999000 bps
   DS Attainable Rate      : 97676176 bps   US Attainable Rate   : 28959000 bps
   DS Path Mode            :        Fast    US Path Mode         :        Fast
   DS Interleave Depth     :        1       US Interleave Depth  :        1
   NE Current Attenuation  :        8 dB    Cur SNR Margin       :       10  dB
   DS actual PSD           :    -5.-6 dB    US actual PSD        :    13. 1  dB
   NE CRC Count            :        0       FE CRC Count         :      895
   NE ES Count             :        0       FE  ES Count         :      496
   Xdsl Reset Times        :        0       Xdsl Link  Times     :        1
   ITU Version[0]          : b5004946       ITU Version[1]       : 544e0000
   VDSL Firmware Version   : 05-06-07-05-01-07   [with Vectoring support]
   Power Management Mode   : DSL_G997_PMS_L0
   Test Mode               : DISABLE
  -------------------------------- ATU-C Info ---------------------------------
   Far Current Attenuation :        0 dB    Far SNR Margin       :       15  dB
   CO ITU Version[0]       : b5004244       CO ITU Version[1]    : 434da44f
   DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR    : < BDCM >
>
Running Mode: The xDSL mode being used, i.e. ADSL, ADSL2+ or VDSL: 8a, 17a, 30a Status: SHOWTIME indicates that the line is in synch.
DS Actual Rate: The downstream sync rate in bits per second, limited by ISP's line profile US Actual Rate: The upstream sync rate in bits per second, limited by ISP's line profile
DS Attainable Rate: The maximum physical rate achievable US Attainable Rate: The maximum physical rate achievable
DS Path Mode: Interleave or Fast path US Path Mode: Interleave or Fast path
DS Interleave Depth: Shows the Interleave depth if line is using Interleaving US Interleave Depth: Shows the Upstream Interleave depth if line is using Interleaving
NE Current Attenuation: Line / Loop attenuation of the router Cur SNR Margin: Downstream SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) value in dB
DS actual PSD: Downstream Power Spectrum Density US actual PSD: Upstream Power Spectrum Density
NE CRC Count: Downstream Cyclic Redundancy Check fail count FE CRC Count: Upstream Cyclic Redundancy Check fail count
NE ES Count: Downstream Errored Seconds count FE ES Count: Upstream Errored Seconds count
Xdsl Reset Times: Number of times that the DSL interface has reset since last power cycle Xdsl Link Times: Number of times that the DSL interface has reconnected since last power cycle
ITU Version[0]: Vendor code of the router ITU Version[1]: Vendor code of the router (continued)
VDSL Firmware Version: The router's modem code
Power Management Mode: Power management type used
Far Current Attenuation: Upstream Line / Loop attenuation Far SNR Margin: Upstream SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) value in dB
CO ITU Version[0]: Vendor code of the exchange / cabinet equipment CO ITU Version[1]: Vendor code of the exchange / cabinet equipment (continued)
DSLAM CHIPSET VENDOR: Vendor of the exchange / cabinet equipment
 
 
Detailed Line Statistics
To show more detailed line statistics, enter "vdsl status more" (or "adsl status more" for an ADSL line)
This will show details of the line statistics in this format.
Near End - The local end, in this case the router / modem. This is the Downstream information.
Far End - The remote end, which is the cabinet or exchange's hardware. This is the Upstream information.
Details of each statistic are listed below:
> vdsl status more
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
                  Near End        Far End    Note
 Trellis      :      1               1
 Bitswap      :      1               1
 ReTxEnable   :      1               1
 VirtualNoise :      0               0
 20BitSupport :      0               0
 LatencyPath  :      0               0
 LOS          :      0               0
 LOF          :      0               0
 LPR          :      0               0
 LOM          :      0               0
 SosSuccess   :      0               0
 NCD          :      0               0
 LCD          :      0               0
 FECS         :      0            2575 (seconds)
 ES           :     35               3 (seconds)
 SES          :      3               1 (seconds)
 LOSS         :      0               0 (seconds)
 UAS          :     27            1861 (seconds)
 HECError     :      0               0
 CRC          :    126              31
 RsCorrection :      0               0
 INP          :    230             160 (symbols)
 InterleaveDelay :      0              62 (1/100 ms)
 NFEC         :     32              32
 RFEC         :     16              16
 LSYMB        :     16              16
 INTLVBLOCK   :     32              32
 AELEM        :      0            ----
Trellis Indicates whether Trellis coding is in use
Bitswap Indicates whether Bit Swapping is in use (1=Enabled, 0=Disabled)
ReTxEnable Indicates whether G.998.4 / G.INP is enabled:    see this guide (1=Enabled, 0=Disabled)
VirtualNoise Indicates whether Virtual Noise is in use
20BitSupport Indicates whether 20 Bit support is in use (1=Enabled, 0=Disabled)
LatencyPath If ActualInterleaveDelay > 100 then interleave path, else it is fast path
LOS Loss Of Signal count
LOF Loss Of Frame count
LPR Loss Of Power count
LOM Loss Of Margin count
SosSuccess Successful SOS procedure count during the accumulation period
NCD No Cell Delineation failure count
LCD Loss Of Cell Delineation failure count
FECS Forward Error Correction Seconds - Line far-end (FECS-LFE)
ES Errored Seconds - Line far-end (ES-LFE)
SES Severely Errored Seconds - Line far-end (SES-LFE)
LOSS Loss Of Signal Seconds
UAS Un-Available Seconds - Line (UAS-L) & Unavailable Seconds - Line far-end (UAS-LFE)
HECError Header Error Check Error count, HEC anomalies in the ATM Data Path
CRC Cyclic Redundancy Check error count, number of CRC 8 anomalies (number of incorrect CRC)
RsCorrection Not used
INP Impulse Noise Protection value.
The the value reported is the number of
DMT symbols that can be error corrected for.
InterleaveDelay
The actual one-way interleaving delay introduced interleaving. Value is in increments of 1/100ms i.e. 62 = 0.62ms
NFEC This parameter reports the actual Reed-Solomon codeword size in bytes used in the latency path in which the bearer channel is transported.
RFEC Actual number of Reed-Solomon redundancy bytes (RFEC).
This parameter reports the actual number of Reed-Solomon redundancy bytes per codeword used in the latency path in which the bearer channel is transported. The value 0 indicates no Reed-Solomon coding.
G.992.1/2:
Number of Reed-Solomon bytes. The value corresponds to RF/S for the
fast path, RI/S for the interleaved path (number of RS bytes per symbol).
G.992.3/4/5:
The value corresponds to RP (number of RS bytes per FEC data frame).
G.993.1:
The value corresponds to R (number of RS check bytes per code word).
G.993.2:
The number of redundancy octets in the RS codeword.
LSYMB This parameter reports the actual number of bits per symbol assigned to the latency path in which the bearer channel is transported. This value does not include trellis overhead. It ranges from 0 to 65535. Maximum possible value is 3825 in case of ADSL2 and 7665 in case of ADSL2+.
This parameter is not valid for G.993.1.
INTLVBLOCK This parameter reports the actual block length of the interleaver used in the latency path in which the bearer channel is transported.
The value ranges from 4 to 255 by step of 1.
AELEM Upstream Power Back-Off (UPBO) related status parameters for the alternative electrical length estimation method (AELEM).
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Sniper

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2017, 06:40:49 PM »

Thanks for replies.

@gt94sss2 its type A

@burakkucat thanks for the welcome, I can't switch to BT SH6 because it lacks bridge mode.

Whats the recommend modem/router with bridge mode, something likeZyxel VMG1312? i don't need any wireless features.

thank you
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skyeci

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2017, 06:56:30 PM »

I was always lead to believe the 130 would probably lead to the highest sync but then again all lines are different. My friends line also on eci has used a 130 with the best sync rate for him. I like my vmg 8324 in bridge mode, no issues with stats etc but I should try a 130 really just to compare as I am on eci too..
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ejs

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2017, 07:00:16 PM »

Despite the documentation from Draytek to the contrary, the values in the "Near End" column of the detailed stats appear to be consistent with the upstream, and the "Far End" column with the downstream.

Retransmission can be enabled on the downstream and not on the upstream. You can't have retransmission on the upstream and not the downstream. The possibilities are for retransmission are off for both DS and US, on for DS and off for US, and on for both DS and US.
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burakkucat

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2017, 07:55:36 PM »

I had the same difficulty when I was the brief owner of two Vigor 130 devices and found the following explanation on the (login required) DrayTek web site.

Thank you for posting that Draytek explanation. I still find it difficult to understand exactly what is meant.

Starting from first principles, "ATU-C" refers to "ADSL Transceiver Unit, Central Office", i.e. the DSLAM or MSAN and "ATU-C" refers to "ADSL Transceiver Unit, Remote Site", i.e. the local modem/router. Nowadays most references are to "xTU-C" and "xTU-R", allowing for the presence of G.993.2 (i.e. VDSL2).

However Draytek devices will report --

Quote
> vdsl status more
  ---------------------- ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C) -----------
                  Near End        Far End    Note
 Trellis      :    <blah, blah>

Notice the heading, "ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C)", is explicitly stating "ATU-R" i.e. the local modem/router. Under that main heading there are two column headings, "Near End" and "Far End". Logically, something has to be incorrect about what is displayed.

To me, the main heading "ATU-R Info (hw: annex A, f/w: annex A/B/C)" needs to be removed and the column headers, "Near End" & "Far End" should be changed to read "US" & "DS", respectively.

I also see that the second half of my last sentence is in alignment with what ejs has written.
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burakkucat

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 08:04:29 PM »

@burakkucat thanks for the welcome, I can't switch to BT SH6 because it lacks bridge mode.

Ah, it's as simple as that. Thank you for explaining.

Quote
Whats the recommend modem/router with bridge mode, something likeZyxel VMG1312? i don't need any wireless features.

I won't specify a precise model but, yes, the general, majority, opinion is that ZyXEL devices tend to perform best. Of course there are always "corner cases" which will be the exception.

As for a list of modem/routers, please take a look at the very first post of this thread.
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gt94sss2

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 08:36:04 PM »

Interesting that you have a HH5A as that is a Lantiq chipset like the 130 but you don't experience any issues with it.

Am not familiar with the security gateway you mention but before you buy a new modem, you may want to look at this thread where others have been able to get it to act as a bridge (and someone suggests the same method works on the Smart Hub)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 08:43:57 PM by gt94sss2 »
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Sniper

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 09:43:55 PM »

@gt94sss2 OMG that worked, should have done more research :P

Only disadvantage is I can't set google as the DNS server on USG security gateway that every device would use.

I imagine it might be possible via more advanced configuration somehow, can settle with just setting it on the actual device when I need to for the moment.

Still connecting at 74ish but will give it some time to see if it goes back to normal overnight.

thanks again
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Sniper

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2017, 10:00:33 PM »

Actually think I might still need to get something different.

The bufferbloat is back to what it used to be. I play lots of Battlefield 1 connecting via the 130 I saw no indicators for bad latency.

@burakkucat thanks for list
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highpriest

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 01:41:39 AM »

It was syncing at 79999 down / 20000 up, now is down to 73999/20000.

I had the same problem, identical down to the 73999 sync speed, except, the cab I'm connected to is a Huawei.

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,17920.msg325298.html

Something tells me the Vigor 130 has something fundamentally wrong with it.

In my case, the banding was permanent and never got removed. My line eventually got reset when I switched ISPs.
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Sniper

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Re: Draytek Vigor 130 sync speed slower that BT Smart Hub (ECI)
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2017, 06:59:00 PM »

Would be pretty annoying if its permanent, have switched back to SmartHub now anyway.

Enabling Smart Queues in USG reduced buffer bloat to around 1ms, so no need for anything extra hopefully.

thanks for the help
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