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Author Topic: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?  (Read 46212 times)

kitz

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Re: Do your pavements look like a war zone?
« Reply #285 on: April 14, 2018, 01:18:03 PM »

I know this is completely OT, but hopefully it will amuse you. A town not far from me is  having VM, but is full of crusties like this one.
I just had to pinch this and share elsewhere.
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Zico

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #286 on: April 14, 2018, 01:24:29 PM »

Well there are quite a lot of people here who are fed up with the appalling mess they make while they are doing the work and feel the same about the state of the footpaths after it is finished. Paved paths are simply filled in with tarmac not re-instated and grass verges are left muddy with no grass left. I know this work is intrusive and certainly some of the contractors have been accommodating in allowing access but by no means all, but the paths are NOT being re-instated as they were before and to my mind they should have been. If it's paved then re-pave it, if it's tarmac then use the same colour tarmac (not all our pavements are black tarmac) and if it's concrete then re-concrete. They really should leave it so their work is almost invisible.

Stuart

***WARNING non-directed rant incoming***

The national requirement for utilities is that they re-instate where they have worked (the trench/excavation only) with like for like material. Tarmac for tarmac, slabs for slabs, brick sets for brick sets etc.. Tarmac fades overtime from the normal dark black to a grey black colour and there is nothing that can be done to stop this. Once any new tarmac reinstatement is carried out it WILL stand out as it's fresh. The trench lines are often not dead straight as the utilities have to work around other apparatus beneath the surface. There are standards that need to be accounted for with any reinstatement and if they aren't to specification then they will be defected by a highway authority accordingly.

Other materials can be used with agreement of the local highway authority. Some highway authorities replace damaged slabs with tarmac as it's a more flexible and easier material to maintain. This can also be extended out to a utility in a similar fashion, damaged/cracked slabs replaced with tarmac. Obviously if undamaged slabs are being removed/cut through then this is also an issue that is taken up with by the highway authorities and can be defected against a reinstatement.

Grassed verges/areas should normally be cleared of any debris (stone/chippings etc..) and levelled before they are seeded to allow the grass to re-grow. Weather is an obvious factor for delaying or disrupting this process. It's a misconception that utilities have to instantly re-turf grassed areas and I've never known this to have happened once. If a grassed area is not dealt with (even if the weather is not an impacting factor) then it can be defected and dealt with in normal process of dealing with utility defects.
It doesn't help that some people complain of muddy verges because of utility works and yet right next to the site there are people parking their cars on the verge, or over running the verges/footway to illegally access off road parking without a proper vehicle crossing. Also, if there are muddy verges, TAKE OFF YOUR SHOES before you walk into your house. How is it a third parties fault that you walk mud into your house when normal people would take of their shoes!!

***Rant over***
 :D
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 01:29:51 PM by Zico »
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Zico

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Re: Do your pavements look like a war zone?
« Reply #287 on: April 14, 2018, 01:26:09 PM »

I know this is completely OT, but hopefully it will amuse you. A town not far from me is  having VM, but is full of crusties like this one.

Don't worry, there are war zones all over VM sites. Here's a recent example in Ashford:
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/weve-been-blitzed-by-broadband-117114/
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Zico

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #288 on: April 14, 2018, 01:48:26 PM »

Though my suspicions are that he expects absolute perfect reinstatement. Unblemished pavements  are not frequent and I'm sure you would not expect that.

That town wants to hold back the future. They are fighting a merger with Bournemouth and Poole, approved by Govt, and ridiculously tried to move from Dorset to Hampshire. And to write to Branson suggests more out of touchness with the world.

I wouldn't think Thanet is like that.

End of thread interruption.

Highway authorities can create Section 58 restrictions to help protect streets.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/22/section/58
Section 58 restrictions protect streets following the completion of substantial works and prevent the new works from being excavated by other works promoters or for successive works to take place in the same location.

This protection would legally prevent future planned works from taking place for a pre-determined time once the works have been completed.

Different periods of restriction apply depending on the type of work completed and the reinstatement category of that street.  These can range from six months to five years.


Section 58 restrictions are often only found where a carriageway or footway have been fully resurfaced or reconstructed and do not prevent emergency or urgent works from being carried out. Even new individual customer connection works can be carried out with a S58 in place.
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Ronski

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #289 on: April 14, 2018, 01:54:25 PM »

It just goes to show how out of touch with reality they are if comparing to a war zone, perhaps they should go to Syria to see just how bad it is.

Yes it would be nice if the paths were totally resurfaced, or even if they just followed along the kerb, but I guess it's not practical.

Funny enough whilst out just now I said to my wife/daughters that it would be nice if the trench was dug adjacent to the kerb, but one of them replied they have to go around whatever is already in the ground.
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Zico

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #290 on: April 14, 2018, 02:19:35 PM »

They could be a Street Works inspector yet  ;)
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broadstairs

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #291 on: April 14, 2018, 03:10:02 PM »

There are no doubt people who simply think this is too inconvenience caused by this work which is likely to not have a huge take up. Also if BT allowed their ducts to take the fibre things would not need so much work to be done to provide fibre in the first place, the final part could be done via the poles, and this I believe is being done in some areas although it's BT doing it. Since the vast majority of the infrastructure was done prior to privatisation it should be publicly owned and available to all!

Stuart
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Zico

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #292 on: April 14, 2018, 03:41:51 PM »

The DPA (duct and pole access) that has been in place for a number of years hasn't really been taken up by any of the other big players. I understand that a simplified process was trialled in 2016 but I don't believe that any of the big communications companies took part (again).

Access to other operators ducts/poles doesn't avoid the need for civil works to clear blocked ducts or carry out maintenance.

The fact that telecoms companies have existing powers under the Electronic Communications Code (https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/information-for-industry/policy/electronic-comm-code - further reformed by the Digital Economy Act 2017 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2017/30/part/2/enacted ) also doesn't stop new/independent networks being rolled out.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 05:17:15 PM by Zico »
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Ronski

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #293 on: April 14, 2018, 05:15:27 PM »

@Broadstairs Poles and ducts would be no good on our estate, there isn't any. Even if there were ducts they'd still need to break out at each property anyway.

I really don't think the works have been much of an issue. We can look forward to it again in a few decades when BT finally gets around to putting fibre in.
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renluop

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Re: Do your pavements look like a war zone?
« Reply #294 on: April 14, 2018, 10:59:04 PM »

Don't worry, there are war zones all over VM sites. Here's a recent example in Ashford:
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/weve-been-blitzed-by-broadband-117114/
I see the Kent-on-line photographer went to the same college as that of the Bournemouth Echo, whence my article came.

Instructions. Angry citizens must be photoed with folded arms and stern look, ::) ;D
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Black Sheep

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #295 on: April 15, 2018, 08:37:49 AM »

There are no doubt people who simply think this is too inconvenience caused by this work which is likely to not have a huge take up. Also if BT allowed their ducts to take the fibre things would not need so much work to be done to provide fibre in the first place, the final part could be done via the poles, and this I believe is being done in some areas although it's BT doing it. Since the vast majority of the infrastructure was done prior to privatisation it should be publicly owned and available to all!

Stuart

As Zico points out, access to our ducts has been available for years now ..... nobody wants to play though.

Another posting by Zico, also confirms a change in working practices regarding reinstatements as imposed by our local councils.

I'm struggling to put a time-frame on it, but lets say it was probably over a decade ago that if we put in for 'a dig' to be done by our contractors, we had to make damned sure we were certain it was a) needed and, b) in the correct location ..... as the reinstatement wouldn't be just a 3x3ft patch of tarmac, it would be for tens of metres.

As mentioned in Zico's link, woe betide if there was a secondary fault on the same circuit ..... as we couldn't have it dug up again for at least 6 months !!

As with all things, this lasted for about a year ..... the back to BAU.  :)
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Zico

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #296 on: April 15, 2018, 12:30:48 PM »

With regards to DPA, it's not like Openreach are entirely to blame for the almost non-existent take up of access. Trying to get the reverse is next to impossible. Trying to get two utilities to even share road space when carrying out works is a pain in the rear. There are plenty of issues such as who accepts responsibility or liability for a whole host of outcomes that tends to be a constant block in sharing things.

With regards to reinstatements, It's before my time if it was more than a decade ago, but there is nothing to stop a whole trench line being taken up and redone in present times if it fails coring tests (though if you're talking a really long length then it's likely multiple cores would be taken at various points to establish just how much of a reinstatement may have failed/passed inspection). I know of at least one job that required several hundred metres of trench redone because of the re-bar not being installed correctly within a concrete road. That cost a penny or two. I know of one job now that's being carried out that's costing up to half a million to perform a permanent reinstatement  :o.

I've not known a Section 58 stop any fault works from taking place for obvious reasons. I do know of a few examples though of where the utility has been made to carry out full width reinstatement though due to the area having recently (sometimes hours before) been re-surfaced. Sometimes it's just unlucky that things happen where they do :D.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 12:33:52 PM by Zico »
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CarlT

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #297 on: April 16, 2018, 10:49:34 AM »

VM really haven't helped themselves with some of the decisions made over the Lightning project, though I think they're changing that now - just note the areas that have been deemed overbudget where previously they were happy to spend insane amounts per premises.

Case in point here - they did full width reinstatement on a 150m stretch in order to complete secondary fibre route for a pair of MSANs and built in kilometres of block paving. The recently announced / reannounced Rothwell build - to get there from Leeds required going through another suburb, Robin Hood. Getting to Robin Hood required about 4km of narrow trenching after the original plans, a roughly 1km trench, fell through.

It's going to border on miraculous getting the project finished on time and within budget, however I'm aware of what happens either way if those aren't met.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #298 on: April 16, 2018, 05:11:21 PM »

Isnt this often the case?

Early in a rollout you fare better as at that stage things are experimental and purse strings are looser.
At some point the accountants do an audit of spending and things get reigned in, meaning latter part of rollout things might not work out as well.

I remember countless VM trials where people were overjoyed with great performance, probably due to out of budget capacity been supplied, but then post trial the accountants do the maths and actual rollout things were not as good, so many of those stories on cableforum from years ago.

BT similar I suppose with the g.fast fiasco, in trial was done from poles, then actual rollout from cabinets at least until further notice..
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CarlT

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Re: Virgin Media coming to Thanet?
« Reply #299 on: April 17, 2018, 11:38:10 AM »

Yup. The amounts BT spent on their FTTP trials were pretty unpleasant too. Unpleasant enough to cause them to cancel virtually all of the commercial FTTP deployment in favour of FTTC  :)
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