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Author Topic: Noisy Line  (Read 5340 times)

mikeh

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2017, 05:10:42 PM »

An engineer visit is booked for Thursday pm.
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burakkucat

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2017, 05:55:07 PM »

An engineer visit is booked for Thursday pm.

Have you been given any indication of the type of technician that will be tasked to attend? Just an average network (PSTN) technician? Or one that is multi-skilled, i.e. versed in all aspects, like our Black Sheep?
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mikeh

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 08:01:05 AM »

Hi, there has been no indication of the type of engineer coming on Thursday. I've had a reply as such:-

No fault was found after automated testing.
A trouble report can still be raised if the End User is certain a fault exists.

I opted for this and received a reply saying I need to check my internal setup doing the usual tests and if a fault is found on my side I will be liable for a 65 charge.

I keep checking the quiet line test and the background hum is always there with either corded or cordless phones. I have anytime call plan and don't use the mobile at home. Can you confirm there should be no audible background noise on a landline phone, just in case the engineer may say the noise is acceptable?
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RealAleMadrid

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2017, 09:36:30 AM »

There should certainly not be a background hum on the line and if it is present at the test socket it must be an external fault. My experience with line noise problems is that the openreach engineer can't hear it or it isn't present when tested then they always report back the ISP that the fault has been cleared when nothing has been done!
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Black Sheep

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2017, 11:20:11 AM »

If you decide to go ahead with a visit, it becomes a 'Conscious Decision To Appoint' (CDTA) fault. If our tests pass whilst on-site,  and no audible noise can be heard ... then it becomes chargeable.

A 'hum' is usually associated with 'Earth faults' ..... a low resistance reading from one, or both, wire/s, to ground. If there is an internal cable linking the outside wire to your master socket, it could indeed be on that section as well as the chance of it being an external issue ?? You would be covered under 'Fair wear & tear' on your rental agreement though. In my experience, 'Earth faults' are usually internal faults or E-side cable faults ....... the only other instance is a dropwire through trees if the premises is fed overhead ?.

However, tThe remote tests would generally pick these kind of faults up ?? So, in a nutshell, it's a bit of a gamble whether to proceed ?? Our 'Pair Quality Test' (PQT) does have wider quality gates than the remote test, so it may well find something ??? Good luck.

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tickmike

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2017, 02:23:19 PM »

It's very odd that all the tests and QLT done on my line by BT OR chaps, none showed up the HR fault  :o
But after emailing the CEO of BT OR my line was put on a new cable out of four that go from the exchange to PCP and also a different 'pair' to my DP on our lane (all UG feeds) Problem solved  ;D

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,19162.0.html
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BT ADSL2 line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
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Black Sheep

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2017, 03:11:02 PM »

I wouldn't say it's odd, I'd say it's unusual.

Our tests have a 'Cone of acceptance level' in-built on all parameters. Obviously, if a fault is in its infancy, or is intermittent .... then it may well fall within the CoA, and show as a pass on all tests.

If the fault gets re-repeated a few times, then a triage team (via a robotic tool) should intercept this, and indeed speculative changes to the network can then be made by the engineer, that we are otherwise told are off-limits.

We have to remember that the testing (both remote and on-site) will usually pick up a fault if one is present. The advice/suggestions I give here are, and have to be , in general terms ............ there are way to many variables to go into each scenario, every time a situation is presented to us on the forum.  :)
 
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mikeh

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2017, 04:13:05 PM »

I am going ahead with the visit as I have double checked everything and there is always a continuous hum. I have just switched off the modem and phone and connected to the test socket with both phones and the hum is still the same. There is no internal wiring connected to the master socket.

The master socket is on the wall and the cable goes through to wall, then along the wall to the supporting bracket on the bungalow to the pole, then crosses a rail line to the drop pole on the other side of the line.  The rail line has no overhead power cables. Both these poles were replaced about 6 years ago, the work was done late at night when the train traffic had stopped.

The line goes underground from the drop pole (Junction box on top of the pole). It appears at the start of our lane, goes up a pole there and connects to another pole which feeds a line to a farm. The cable connecting these 2 poles is in contact with some tree branches at 3 points. I assume the engineer would have picked up any faults at these poles.

The first engineer wanted a check on the connections below the drop pole but no work has been done there. That is as much info as I know. See what happens tomorrow.

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renluop

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2017, 06:15:48 PM »

@mikeh
Forgive me if this irrelevant. Even though there are no OH wires, there is still a lot of electrical infrastructure along railway tracks. I will leave it to the cognoscienti to say if my comment has value.
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tickmike

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2017, 01:29:50 AM »

What railway line is it ? where are you ?.
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I RECOMMEND TRYING / USING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com) .
I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

mikeh

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2017, 06:58:06 AM »

My property is located next to a railway level crossing on the Hull to Selby line in East Yorks. The building for the power supply etc for the crossing barriers is located nearby.

Just done another QLT and the noise is very audible. On the phone yesterday there was also some faint crackling.
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mikeh

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2017, 05:43:55 PM »

Update after engineer visit

The OR engineer confirmed a continuous buzzing noise, as he called it, a definite line fault. By the way there is also occasional crackling. He couldn't check at the poles without a hoist which was later cancelled. From the test socket a HR fault was showing about 1900 mtrs which is about the distance to the cab. He went to the cab next and concluded that there was a possible underground fault between the pole at the start of our lane and the drop pole near our property, so he cancelled the hoist.

I gave him all the information I knew about the work carried out on the last visit which he found very helpful. He did say there was digging work scheduled at the pole with the damaged cable some time in the past but nothing had happened. He couldn't do any more and said the job would be passed on to the triage team ?

He said that was all he could do and it should get sorted but if it doesn't I should report it again and he hopes he doesn't get the job! I think he said he was a cal engineer? something to do with fibre?

One positive is confirmation of the fault which fortunately is continuous and not intermittent. He was a nice chap!

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burakkucat

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2017, 05:58:19 PM »

One positive is confirmation of the fault which fortunately is continuous and not intermittent. He was a nice chap!

That is good to know. (Both facts!)  :)
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Black Sheep

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2017, 07:15:35 PM »

'The Triage Team' ??? They only get involved when a high repeat report fault has been identified ...... how many visits have you had ???

Are you saying there is a damaged cable that needs to be dug up and repaired ?? If so, the 'triage Team' can't do jack about it ... they are in simple-terms, office bods who are the go-between for ISP's and engineers.

Did he not mention an 'A1024' at all, did he mention a label on the pole commenting on the damaged cable ?? It's all a bit vague, especially as he saw a 'Dis' at the Cab, but then the fault was back near your premises. Very odd.  :-X
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anfield_92

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Re: Noisy Line
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2017, 08:27:33 PM »

'The Triage Team' ??? They only get involved when a high repeat report fault has been identified ...... how many visits have you had ???

Are you saying there is a damaged cable that needs to be dug up and repaired ?? If so, the 'triage Team' can't do jack about it ... they are in simple-terms, office bods who are the go-between for ISP's and engineers.


Black sheep triage team is used as a generic name for many different helpdesks, in my patch we currently have an a55 triage who we have to call to vet any a55s we submit, in the past we have had a broadband triage who we had to call before closing an sfi/boost, a TRC triage who we had to call before closing any fault, and an 'on the day sucess' triage who we had to call before any furthers.

From the test socket a HR fault was showing about 1900 mtrs which is about the distance to the cab. He went to the cab next and concluded that there was a possible underground fault between the pole at the start of our lane and the drop pole near our property, so he cancelled the hoist.



If you are on fttc then the dslam would show as an HR on the jdsu tdr, possibly if the engineer was fairly new he wouldnt have known this.


He said that was all he could do and it should get sorted but if it doesn't I should report it again and he hopes he doesn't get the job! I think he said he was a cal engineer? something to do with fibre?


'Cal' stands for customer apparatus and line, basically an engineer who is not underground trained. So the engineer has visited the cab, found all to be ok there, and has passed the job for an underground trained engineer to visit.
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