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Author Topic: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please  (Read 27500 times)

Weaver

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2017, 08:21:36 AM »

@ejs - I'm clearly not understanding the claimed mechanism. Is it suggested that some ISPs sell info to geolocation databases? Can't they just get info from the likes of Google anyway who get it via whatever techniques such as wireless LAN MAC addresses plus crowdsourcing?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 08:23:52 AM by Weaver »
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aesmith

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2017, 08:30:08 AM »

I think what's being theorised is that if the ISP assigns by using specific prefixes for specific areas, then once some information is learned about addresses within that prefix, it can be applied to others.  So in the Plusnet example if enough customer addresses have been pinpointed by SSID scanning, Android and Iphone location etc and are all found in the same area, now the geolocation services can assume any other address is within that area.
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ejs

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2017, 08:50:13 AM »

Indeed. And presumably the dynamic IP address is essential so that you can change IP address after logging out of Google, if you believe that will make it a little harder for Google to track everything you do.
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Ronski

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2017, 03:16:16 PM »

I'm with Plusnet, and a lookup of my IP address does indeed reveal my nearest town (Ashford, Kent).
Have a look at https://www.iplocation.net/

I've had the same static IP for years on Plusnet, and I really don't care if Google knows where I am, much preferring the benefits of it knowing.

So here's my results from the above link, remember my IP address has been known by Google and many others for years.

Caldicot, Wales
Clowne, Derbyshire
Apparently I'm also in the Thames 51.4964,-0.1224
Whitestone near Nuneaton
Leicester

I'm actually in Broadstairs, Kent


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roseway

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2017, 03:57:01 PM »

:)
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insidejob

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2017, 11:36:00 PM »

While many of you point out about mobiles and WIFI, while there is some truth to that it is not the main reason for this, otherwise I would of been located many years ago but that didn't happen. This also does not apply to me as I use a wired connection and no WIFI.

Plusnet allocate IP's to the exchange.

Others then learn that these IP's are only allocated to a certain exchange in a certain area and that is how it knows your geolocation, to the exchange, in your town or city. As you know it didn't work like this before march 2017 and showed the hub, in my case in London only.


This is what I found out about it and were said before.

Quote
Now I understand why my location is showing close to home and it is as a result, consequence of what plusnet have done that leads to this.

Plusnet have indeed moved from a shared network to a dedicated network. This is meant to improve connections etc but my issue is a consequence of this. Which PN didn’t foresee, so I am told.

Basically what is happening is, Plusnet are allocating individual exchanges, with groups of IP’s of about 120 of them at a time. This is a bit like allocating a static IP to the exchange, except they are not. Also you are much more likely to obtain the same IP, if you disconnect now than before or within the group of ranges allocated to that Exchange. PN is more sticky IP now as I have said before.

Under the old shared network, we all connected through shared data centres, via the hub, like London or Sheffield, if you lived in that area. Now it connects to the allocated IP’s in the BT exchange. Like a static IP to the exchange.

As a result of individual exchanges being allocated these IP ranges, means websites and IP checkers have worked out what location IP's have been allocated to, to these individual exchanges and they are not going to change with Plusnet ISP.

Now I stand by what I said and under the old network system, that because it only connected via the hub, that’s why, is showed London in my case all the time. Nothing to do with google but because of this new dedicated network, your IP’s are allocated from your local exchange and that’s how they know what city/town/village you are from. The IP's allocated to your local exchange are unlikely to be changed and won’t be allocated to any other BT exchange under PN. This may well apply to other ISP’s who use this dedicated system but if they are using a shared network, with other ISP’s, they will be like the old Plusnet network, showing a hub or other data centres.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2017, 11:41:56 PM by insidejob »
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insidejob

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2017, 11:57:37 PM »

@Weaver

It has nothing to do with the ISP's policy on privacy. It's to do with how they allocate IP addresses. If they assign specific ranges of IP addresses to specific areas, then geolocation companies will be able to work out the locations of the IP address ranges. Unless you think the ISP should have some sort of strategy to prevent geolocation companies working out the locations of the IP addresses.


Yes, you get it. I do believe that ISP's should have some sort of option to mitigate this. I suggested a location On/Off switch in Plusnets user control panel, a bit like your geolocator on/off on your android phone.

Yes and before you say, just switching off that option on your android or Iphone, is no guarantee that you still can't be tracked. Now you know why I dont use phones like that or with GPS. ;) GPS is the most accurate geolocator to 99%.
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insidejob

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2017, 12:01:29 AM »

So back to finding an ISP with dynamic IP and who does not show your location so close to home, as explained in my above post.

What about Talk Talk, Vodaphone, Sky broadband?
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2017, 12:07:16 AM »

@insidejob, may I clarify what form of location tracking it is that worries you..

A) tracking for advertising purposes, eg a popup inviting you to visit a nearby restaurant.

B) social tacking, eg your friends & family know where you are.

C) law enforcement, eg somebody thinks you are up to mischief.

D) ?

I'm not saying any of above are, or are not, worthy of debate.   Just curious.
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insidejob

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2017, 12:16:18 AM »

Pretty much all of it. It's to do with privacy and security and while things may not be 100%, I dont want to hand it to them on a plate and many like me, feel the same way.

I dont want to go much off topic and get into to much about that. All I want is an isp that don't do what Plusnet are doing, as from march 2017.

Also before anyone says and as said before, I clear my cookies, browser history, cache regularly and have done since dial up days. For privacy and security.
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Weaver

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2017, 12:58:45 AM »

I seriously think you would be fine with AA, because as far as I can see their address allocation fits your stated _underlying_ requirements. I wouldn't tell you wrong. They will at least be happy to tell you exactly how their systems work if you ask them and I think you would be able to trust them because there are actual individuals with names and the boss really really cares about privacy. You have little to lose by at least talking to them anyway. In fact they have been known to sort people out when they are not even customers. And there is also the option of talking to AA users not just staff on IRC - see the how-to for AA IRC at https://aa.net.uk/kb-irc.html

An odd idea: In fact if you went IPv6-only, not that that is necessarily possible for you, then the entire IPv4 internet would only ever see the address of AA's NAT64 protocol converter. That service is free and it works. So that is a perfect solution. We have at least one kitizen who is already using it. And in fact you can change your IP address whenever you want, you can simply hit a button and get another /64. In terms of websites' tracking you would also get the benefit of IPv6 'privacy addresses' depending on your o/s and config.

:-) I truly am just trying to give the maximum help I can because I do care about your goals and there may possibly be some things around that are new to you, I don't know. If you would like clarification on any of this stuff, then do please just shout.

Kitizens, am I correct in my thinking that apart from the BT Retail ISP (whatever they call themselves nowadays) just about any ISP would be better than PlusNet given the OP's concerns?
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burakkucat

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2017, 02:11:32 AM »

I can confirm that as a TalkTalk user, any of the "locator sites" just state the TT POP as my "location". Depending upon the IPv4 address I have been allocated, it might be Lowestoft, Cambridge, Bury (the Lancashire version), Guildford, Nottingham, etc, . . .

The one place the "locator sites" never mention is Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk.
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aesmith

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2017, 08:21:11 AM »

I suggested a location On/Off switch in Plusnets user control panel
That can't be done.  Plusnet isn't providing the information, as has been mentioned many times.   The only thing that Plusnet could do is offer you a static IP.

Weaver's IPv6 idea has merit.
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insidejob

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2017, 12:28:35 AM »

Hi Weaver, thanks but looking at them prices, not so sure about AAISP. I really dont want a static IP especially IPV6. I would need new equipment that I really dont want to buy. I may not even be able to use the modem router setup I have now on IPV6 anyway.

OK thanks burakkucat. Talk talk may well be an option for me then. I would not mind if my IP's showed them locations. They are nowhere near my home place. Some of them location you posted, are even further away than the London hub.

I am aware of some bad press about talk talk but then Plusnet has it's fair share as well. Like now  :D

BTW can other members test this. I have noticed that if you click on google maps without doing any searching, it automatically locates your home city or Town. I don’t think you need to work out why and that's why I don’t like what plusnet have done.

Try it.
https://maps.google.com
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burakkucat

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Re: I need a certain type of isp - Recommendations Please
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2017, 12:38:50 AM »

Google maps will "automagically" start-up in the region at which I was last looking. So tonight it was centred on East Anglia.

I don't find that behaviour odd or unacceptable.
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