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Author Topic: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?  (Read 787 times)

Bowdon

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Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« on: February 13, 2017, 01:22:06 PM »

I was wondering is there any modem/router that would allow for load balancing with 1 fttc line and 1 vm line? or are these 2 lines different technologies?

Also, some people say go visit the VM forum to check what people say about the service in the local area. I'm not sure if I've seen this VM forum. I remember last time I looked for it, it was for members only?
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Ronski

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2017, 01:26:01 PM »

Yes, just use a load balancing router or a pfsense box,  and respective modems for each line. They are of course different technologies, but for load balancing that won't matter.
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Weaver

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 01:46:59 PM »

My Firebrick router is doing it. It doesn't matter how the lines work, as long as the modems both speak PPPoE and you set a low enough MRU / MTU so that things will work ok on either line.

You will possibly have to work out something with IP addressing though. What you need to do in this respect depends on whether or not you want a single TCP connection, i.e. a single download, to go twice as fast, or whether you are happy with only using half the performance of the system unless you have two downloads in progress at the same time, and on whether or not you want double speed uploads.

Andrews and Arnold among other service providers can set it up for you even if you don't use their pipes to provide your internet connection but use some other ISPs entirely they can provide the IP addressing and the routing necessary. (Their L2TP service.) If you don't want double speed single downloads/uploads then things are easier in terms of your shopping list in this respect though. AA is not the only provider to look at, if memory serves, Pulse8 might be another option, from some earlier thread?

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Chunkers

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 01:51:46 PM »

I don't know what protocol or type of connection VM is (does it stand for Virgin Media = cable? .... dunno ) but my pfSense router load-balances an ADSL2+ connection with a VDSL connection from two different ISP's and manages PPPOE for both separately without issue.  You can also get a small number of off-the-shelf routers which will do this like the TP-Link ER5120 and from Draytek (but not as well as pfSense in my experience so far)

As Ronski says, as long as you have some kind of modem for each connection it should just work.

Chunks
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Weaver

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 02:02:22 PM »

One other thing, I'm not sure if you necessarily get much better reliability if you or your ISP just distribute TCP connections or other flows across modems while keeping each one assigned just to one modem at a time, so a single TCP connection goes at 1 /n of full possible speed. I get full true load balancing - everything goes flat out in every case. But what's more, if a link goes down temporarily, my Firebrick - in the case of uploads - and AA's Firebrick - in the case of downloads - re-routes traffic to the other pipes almost instantly so everything just keeps going nicely and you don't notice the outage, as long as you're happy with the lower total capacity of course. So for me, n lines means far greater reliability. But if something has assigned a flow to a particular modem, then you're possibly stuffed if that link goes down, I'm not sure. Depends on a lot of details possibly?
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Bowdon

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 02:07:04 PM »

This sounds like a project I might try, especially if G.fast doesnt roll out for a while.

Does anyone know how to get on the/a VM forum where I can see what the service is like locally without me being a customer of VM ?
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Bowdon

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 06:50:53 PM »

I found the VM forum via a google search.

This link came up http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Speed/Peak-time-congestion/td-p/2857600

What horror stories.

I dont think the technical side that leaves me most shocked. Its the attitude of some on there. One person replies to the OP "FIWI It's Escalated - wind in neck - take a chill pill/valium and contemplate your navel......  and some soothing draught of enlightenment will purge your troubled spirit.... in due course(or even earlier)." This 'horseman' guy seems to be a regular there. But it had been 26 days (over 3 weeks) since the OP first started the thread and was rightfully annoyed at the situation.

When I read threads like that I can't help but think, stockholm syndrome. Some people seem to put up with a sub-standard service/procedure better than anyone else.

I think I'll keep off VM. No offense to VM people getting a good service. But it seems to be pot luck.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 08:06:29 PM »

The problem with VM they genuinely dont believe their capacity management process is unfit for purpose.  They still have silly policies like needing 90% utilisation average for a week for escalation.  By then its way too late as it takes months/years to do an upgrade which again leads to another problem, a sub 100% increase in capacity is deemed as "large".  Ignition explained to me some details on tbb, whilst I appreciate what he shared, I still dont consider their processes to be adequate.  Someone got told the 90% policy is now 95% so possibly has got even worse.  Bear in mind the % measurements are averages "not" peaks.

With all that said tho VM if you in a good area is a good service and even if you in a area with single threaded issues, it can remain good for things like steam downloads which are heavily multithreaded.  Of course some areas are bad on multi threaded also which is a complete mockery.

The one question I have raised which is never answered is why do VM keep pumping out speed upgrades when they have capacity issues, its all well and good blaming planning permissions, but planning permissions are not the cause of speed upgrades and also not the cause of signing up new customers in congested areas.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 08:09:58 PM by Chrysalis »
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nallar

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2017, 08:35:09 PM »

The problem with VM they genuinely dont believe their capacity management process is unfit for purpose.  They still have silly policies like needing 90% utilisation average for a week for escalation.  By then its way too late as it takes months/years to do an upgrade which again leads to another problem, a sub 100% increase in capacity is deemed as "large".  Ignition explained to me some details on tbb, whilst I appreciate what he shared, I still dont consider their processes to be adequate.  Someone got told the 90% policy is now 95% so possibly has got even worse.  Bear in mind the % measurements are averages "not" peaks.

This also gives you incentive as a customer in an area with utilisation problems to constantly use as much bandwidth as possible to ensure utilisation is high enough for them to actually fix it.
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Ignitionnet

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 02:32:20 PM »

Just FYI VM is not PPPoE, straight Ethernet presentation.
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Weaver

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Re: Is it possible to have a FTTC and VM line load balanced?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 04:31:20 PM »

ignitionnet points out that VM kit delivers straight ethernet, not PPPoE. Good to know.

That is something I would have to look into if I were using a Firebrick to do channel bonding. Someone will know the answer.

Obviously doesn't affect an IP-bonding service like the AA L2TP service as they have no clue what CPE you're using, just need to be careful with MTU/MRU that's all.
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