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Author Topic: Geolocation - is it rubbish  (Read 1818 times)

Weaver

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Geolocation - is it rubbish
« on: February 11, 2017, 03:08:12 PM »

Having looked some of my own IPv4 addresses up using quite a few different geo-location services the results do seem to be a complete load of old crap, never even getting to the right location for my ISP, let alone getting to me myself. Hollywood doesn't seem to want to accept such a pessimistic view. How is this ever supposed to work? I mean I can understand there might be a chance of getting ISPs correct, if some volunteers the information - how is that supposed to work? But going beyond that, down to the level of the individual user, surely no-chance? And in my case I have static IP addresses, so how Hollywood thinks it is going to get instantly down to the level of an individual user in the face of ISPs' dynamic allocation I simply can't imagine.

Favourites for me are “Southend” or some place called “Arnold” in Nottinghamshire. Scotland? No chance.
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NEXUS2345

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2017, 03:22:12 PM »

It all very much depends on the ISP. Zen show me as being in London (I am actually in Sheffield), however when I have traced some Canadians, I have found that their ISP has geolocated them to within a couple hundred metres. It very much depends on the ISP, not the idea.
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displaced

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 04:15:50 PM »

It does give an interesting look at how your ISP operates.

When I was with BT, I was always shown as within 6 or so miles of my actual location (Gravesend). Sometimes Gravesend itself, sometimes neighbouring Northfleet or Ebbsfleet, and occasionally just across the river (shudder) in Thurrock or Tilsbury.

Now I'm on Vodafone, I tour the country with every new PPPoE login.  Currently, I'm shown as being in Sutton (!?).
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Weaver

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 04:37:17 PM »

So does this mean that your ISPs are selling you for money? It must be difficult to keep up to date with all the changes with dynamic IPs?
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 07:51:36 PM »

I suspect it is largely attributable to Android smartphones, and Google privacy terms. 

Whenever a naive android owner (with 'default' settings) switches on his phone, it tells google the precise location from GPS.   It also tells Google the SSID and Mac of any WiFi APs within range, which Google then log with the GPS coords.   If the phone is actually connected to WiFi, Google can get the IP address and so make a very good guess at geo-locating it, even better if it belongs to an ISP that uses static IPs (which of course is easy to tell).  Google would then be missing a trick if the did not sell all that data.

Apple play similar tricks of course but, since they make their $billions mainly from hardware sales, I don't think they are quite as devious.
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stevebrass

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2017, 08:01:56 PM »

Sorry - Missing the point here. Hollywood?
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Dray

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 09:07:26 PM »

Piracy perhaps? Watching movies without paying?
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d2d4j

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2017, 09:18:20 PM »

Hi

From a billing platform/hosting/email we use geo ip to ban/place in fraud check/greylist/allow, and we are not interested in the users precise location, just region/country

Many thanks

John
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Weaver

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2017, 09:36:00 PM »

Apologies, I meant that in the movies characters perform instant geolocation lookups which are always of course 100% accurate and which reveal exactly where some target machine is. And all this despite the possible use of NAT too.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2017, 10:19:51 PM »

I don't think it is just movies.  For anybody willing to pay, the data is available, for real.

But why should NAT matter?  Surely it only affects what is seen by the home router, the IP addfess seen by the outside world will be that of the subscriber, regardless of NAT, will it not?

The '?' marks are genuine, lest they appear presumptuous, I am always willing to be (sometimes easily) persuaded that I am wrong.   :)
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Dray

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2017, 10:32:23 PM »

CGNAT?
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2017, 11:29:21 PM »

CGNAT?

Had to google it, but I live and learn. :)

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Weaver

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2017, 09:35:22 AM »

And some corporates use NAT extensively, I believe.
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Chrysalis

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 09:36:54 AM »

maxmind has my ip in leics which is where I am, depends how the isp register's the ip's.
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Ronski

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Re: Geolocation - is it rubbish
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2017, 11:02:18 AM »

Whenever a naive android owner (with 'default' settings) switches on his phone, it tells google the precise location from GPS.   

I certainly not naive, I actually find it useful  :P I often use my Google time line to check things. If it results in meaningful advertising I don't have a problem with that either, although sometimes I wish I could click a button and say I'm not interested in this. I once purchased some artificial flowers for my mother-in-law, and for months afterwards Amazon sent me advertising for flowers! A simple sweep of the finger and the emails deleted though.

PS. I actually find the way Apple rips everybody off more offensive!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 11:06:49 AM by Ronski »
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