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Author Topic: Network Latency on FTTC  (Read 5273 times)

elliottchandler

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Network Latency on FTTC
« on: February 11, 2017, 11:10:04 AM »
Recently switched to a new provider for FTTC and when connecting to remote sites using RDP protocol there is terrible performance. Is there a way I can prove it is the ISP?
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Starman

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2017, 11:15:16 AM »
Have you run trace routes/pathping to the affected IP? Also I'd suggest using a looking glass to see what kind of packet loss or latency you are getting on the return path.
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elliottchandler

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2017, 08:45:20 PM »
Yes have run tracert and pathping which have sometimes shown issues. Was recommended WinMTR which has show issues I think. I have attached the MTR log file.
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Starman

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 10:41:45 PM »
Using their looking glass to reverse trace to yourself?

https://www.myqubenet.net/lookingglass/
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elliottchandler

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 11:18:13 PM »
Just done that now back to the public IP on the router. What's your view on this?

Router: BDR01.LN1
Command: traceroute 82.153.28.134


Tracing the route to 82.153.28.134
VRF info: (vrf in name/id, vrf out name/id)
  1 xe-11-3-3.edge3.London2.Level3.net (195.50.91.197) 1 msec 1 msec 0 msec
  2 ae-119-3505.edge4.London1.Level3.net (4.69.166.1) [AS 3356] 1 msec
    ae-120-3506.edge4.London1.Level3.net (4.69.166.5) [AS 3356] 1 msec
    ae-119-3505.edge4.London1.Level3.net (4.69.166.1) [AS 3356] 2 msec
  3 195.50.122.126 [AS 3356] 1 msec 12 msec 2 msec
  4 62.164.130.151 [AS 8897] 1 msec 1 msec 1 msec
  5 82.153.28.134 [AS 12513] 12 msec 11 msec 11 msec
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Starman

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2017, 08:08:43 AM »
The reverse trace is fine. The WinWRT if I am reading it correctly rather high packet loss beyond hop 3 which would suggest a problem with eclipses network.

Done my own trace/pathping for comparison.

Code: [Select]
Tracing route to 81.91.248.51 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  gateway [192.168.1.254]
  2     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  lo0.central10.psb-bng02.plus.net [195.166.130.253]
  3     8 ms     8 ms     9 ms  411.be6.psb-ir02.plus.net [84.93.253.111]
  4     9 ms     9 ms     8 ms  195.99.125.142
  5     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  core4-hu0-2-0-4.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.127.70]
  6     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  213.137.183.96
  7    10 ms     9 ms     9 ms  10-1-1.ear2.London2.Level3.net [212.187.139.177]
  8     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net [4.69.202.170]
  9     8 ms     8 ms     8 ms  te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net [195.50.91.198]
 10     9 ms     9 ms     9 ms  te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net [81.19.54.177]
 11     9 ms     8 ms     9 ms  81.91.248.51
 12    10 ms     9 ms     9 ms  81.91.248.51

Trace complete.
Code: [Select]
Tracing route to 81.91.248.51 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1  gateway [192.168.1.254]
  2  lo0.central10.psb-bng02.plus.net [195.166.130.253]
  3  411.be6.psb-ir02.plus.net [84.93.253.111]
  4  195.99.125.142
  5  core4-hu0-2-0-4.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.127.70]
  6  213.137.183.96
  7  10-1-1.ear2.London2.Level3.net [212.187.139.177]
  8  ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net [4.69.202.170]
  9  te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net [195.50.91.198]
 10  te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net [81.19.54.177]
 11  81.91.248.51
 12  81.91.248.51

Computing statistics for 300 seconds...
            Source to Here   This Node/Link
Hop  RTT    Lost/Sent = Pct  Lost/Sent = Pct  Address
  1    0ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  gateway [192.168.1.254]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  2    8ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  lo0.central10.psb-bng02.plus.net [195.166.130.253]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  3    8ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  411.be6.psb-ir02.plus.net [84.93.253.111]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  4    8ms    99/ 100 = 99%    99/ 100 = 99%  195.99.125.142
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  5    9ms    99/ 100 = 99%    99/ 100 = 99%  core4-hu0-2-0-4.faraday.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.127.70]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  6   10ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  213.137.183.96
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  7    9ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  10-1-1.ear2.London2.Level3.net [212.187.139.177]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  8   12ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net [4.69.202.170]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  9    9ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net [195.50.91.198]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
 10   10ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net [81.19.54.177]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
 11   10ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  81.91.248.51
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
 12    9ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  81.91.248.51

Trace complete.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 08:18:18 AM by Starman »
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elliottchandler

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2017, 09:34:16 AM »
Interesting results. When I use tracert and pathping I get very different results.

Code: [Select]
Tracing route to 81.91.248.51 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1    <1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     2 ms     1 ms     2 ms  192.168.20.1
  3    14 ms     *       11 ms  lo0_ecldsl-bba1.gs1.eclipse.net.uk [82.153.1.65]
  4     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  7     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  8     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 11    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  81.91.248.51

Trace complete.

Code: [Select]
Tracing route to 81.91.248.51 over a maximum of 30 hops

  0  5259-PC.netgear.com [192.168.1.65]
  1  192.168.1.1
  2  192.168.20.1
  3     *        *        *     
Computing statistics for 50 seconds...
            Source to Here   This Node/Link
Hop  RTT    Lost/Sent = Pct  Lost/Sent = Pct  Address
  0                                           5259-PC.netgear.com [192.168.1.65]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  1    0ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  192.168.1.1
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  2    1ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  192.168.20.1

Trace complete.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 09:36:49 AM by elliottchandler »
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d2d4j

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2017, 09:54:43 AM »
Hi elliotchandler

Please could I ask what you have running on 192.168.20.1

I ask because your gateway looks like 192.168.1.1, so I'm thinking your double nat'd

What is your ping result from router

Many thanks

John
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elliottchandler

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2017, 02:07:02 PM »
Hi Yes, I have a Netgear Firewall FVS336G and then the VMG8324 so yes double NAT. Interesting I have rebooted the PC and the results are different.

Code: [Select]

Tracing route to 81.91.248.51 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1     1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.20.1
  3    12 ms    11 ms    12 ms  lo0_ecldsl-bba1.gs1.eclipse.net.uk [82.153.1.65]
  4    12 ms    13 ms    11 ms  86.54.135.72
  5    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  195.50.122.125
  6    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net [4.69.202.170]
  7    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net [195.50.91.198]
  8    12 ms     *       12 ms  te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net [81.19.54.177]
  9    12 ms    12 ms    12 ms  81.91.248.51
 10    12 ms    13 ms    12 ms  81.91.248.51

Trace complete.


Code: [Select]

Tracing route to 81.91.248.51 over a maximum of 30 hops

  0  5259-PC.netgear.com [192.168.1.65]
  1  192.168.1.1
  2  192.168.20.1
  3  lo0_ecldsl-bba1.gs1.eclipse.net.uk [82.153.1.65]
  4  86.54.135.72
  5  195.50.122.125
  6  ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net [4.69.202.170]
  7  te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net [195.50.91.198]
  8  te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net [81.19.54.177]
  9  81.91.248.51
 10  81.91.248.51

Computing statistics for 250 seconds...
            Source to Here   This Node/Link
Hop  RTT    Lost/Sent = Pct  Lost/Sent = Pct  Address
  0                                           5259-PC.netgear.com [192.168.1.65]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  1    0ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  192.168.1.1
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  2    1ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  192.168.20.1
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  3   11ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  lo0_ecldsl-bba1.gs1.eclipse.net.uk [82.153.1.65]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  4   12ms    40/ 100 = 40%    40/ 100 = 40%  86.54.135.72
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  5   12ms    79/ 100 = 79%    79/ 100 = 79%  195.50.122.125
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  6   15ms    77/ 100 = 77%    77/ 100 = 77%  ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net [4.69.202.170]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  7   12ms    62/ 100 = 62%    62/ 100 = 62%  te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net [195.50.91.198]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  8   12ms    79/ 100 = 79%    79/ 100 = 79%  te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net [81.19.54.177]
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
  9   12ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  81.91.248.51
                                0/ 100 =  0%   |
 10   12ms     0/ 100 =  0%     0/ 100 =  0%  81.91.248.51

Trace complete.

What do you think now? Still looks like some packet loss on the path ping?

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elliottchandler

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2017, 02:12:49 PM »
Also results from the router

Code: [Select]
PING 81.91.248.51 (81.91.248.51): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 81.91.248.51: seq=0 ttl=121 time=31.491 ms
64 bytes from 81.91.248.51: seq=1 ttl=121 time=11.839 ms
64 bytes from 81.91.248.51: seq=2 ttl=121 time=11.621 ms
64 bytes from 81.91.248.51: seq=3 ttl=121 time=11.754 ms

--- 81.91.248.51 ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 11.621/16.676/31.491 ms

Code: [Select]
traceroute to 81.91.248.51 (81.91.248.51), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets
 1  lo0_ecldsl-bba1.gs1.eclipse.net.uk (82.153.1.65)  14.085 ms  10.883 ms  11.129 ms
 2  86.54.135.72 (86.54.135.72)  11.463 ms  11.383 ms  11.456 ms
 3  195.50.122.125 (195.50.122.125)  11.139 ms  11.687 ms  11.852 ms
 4  ae-11-vl-3101.edge3.London2.Level3.net (4.69.202.170)  11.150 ms  34.453 ms  11.362 ms
 5  te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net (195.50.91.198)  11.502 ms  11.468 ms  35.122 ms
 6  te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net (81.19.54.177)  11.207 ms  11.780 ms  11.548 ms
 7  81.91.248.51 (81.91.248.51)  11.513 ms  13.966 ms  11.489 ms
 8 * * *
 9 * * *
10 * * *
11 * * *
12 * * *
----Traceroute end----

Thoughts on this info?
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d2d4j

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2017, 03:09:54 PM »
Hi

Many thanks

Yes, there is packet loss, most likely due to contention on the pipe at eclipse, where it starts. Please be aware though, edge systems are designed to drop pings if busy or low priority and usage is above

Here is mine from mobile

I would contact your provider with the pathping results and raise it as an issue

Many thanks

John

--- Trace to 81.91.248.51 ---

1) 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 44.111 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss
2) host81-148-160-1.in-addr.btopenworld.com (81.148.160.1) 54.010 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
3) 213.120.182.141 (213.120.182.141) 51.694 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
4) 213.120.161.82 (213.120.161.82) 41.908 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
5) 213.120.182.65 (213.120.182.65) 36.304 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
6) 31.55.164.107 (31.55.164.107) 48.911 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
7) 109.159.248.63 (109.159.248.63) 44.707 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
8) core2-te0-3-0-3.ealing.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.248.150) 30.981 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
9) peer5-te0-9-0-9.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (62.172.102.5) 31.101 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
10) t2c4-et-8-1-0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.248) 42.373 ms, 15/16 ps, 6.2% loss [AS 5400] United Kingdom
11) 5-2-1.ear2.london15.level3.net (212.187.173.89) 52.745 ms, 13/16 ps, 18.8% loss [AS 3356] United Kingdom
12) ae-12-vl-3201.edge3.london2.level3.net (4.69.202.178) 66.303 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 3356] European Union
13) te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net (195.50.91.198) 109.393 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 3356] United Kingdom
14) te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net (81.19.54.177) 120.216 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 29668] United Kingdom
15) 81.91.248.51 (81.91.248.51) 93.412 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 29668] United Kingdom
16) 81.91.248.51 (81.91.248.51) 80.957 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 29668] United Kingdom

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NEXUS2345

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2017, 03:20:14 PM »
Hi, I am on Zen and from what I can tell this does seem to be an Eclipse issue. I was with Eclipse about 18 months ago and was very dissatisfied with their service. Here is my tracert on Zen:

Tracing route to 81.91.248.51 over a maximum of 30 hops

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.0.1
  2    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  losubs.subs.bng2.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.80.21]
  3    20 ms    21 ms    20 ms  ae1-183.cr2.th-lon.zen.net.uk [62.3.86.82]
  4    20 ms    20 ms    20 ms  ge-3-3-0.mpr1.lhr3.uk.above.net [195.66.236.76]
  5    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  ae11.mpr1.lhr1.uk.zip.zayo.com [64.125.27.49]
  6    20 ms    19 ms    20 ms  te-0-2-0.bdr01.ln2.qubenet.net [94.31.38.114]
  7    20 ms    20 ms    20 ms  te-0-1-0.core1.th1.qubenet.net [81.19.54.185]
  8    21 ms    20 ms    19 ms  te-2-5.core2.ln1.qubenet.net [81.19.53.49]
  9    19 ms    19 ms    19 ms  te-2-8.core1.ln1.qubenet.net [81.19.54.149]
 10    21 ms    20 ms    19 ms  81.91.248.51
 11    22 ms    20 ms    21 ms  81.91.248.51

Trace complete.
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elliottchandler

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  • Posts: 44
Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2017, 04:40:14 PM »
Thanks for the replies. In the pathping it shows a response time much higher than the previous 3 lines.

4   12ms    40/ 100 = 40%    40/ 100 = 40%  86.54.135.72

Is this the eclipse network? Is there were the pipe is being throttled?

Why doesn't the tracert show an issue?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 04:42:36 PM by elliottchandler »
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elliottchandler

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 04:43:10 PM »
Quote from: d2d4j on February 12, 2017, 03:09:54 PM
Hi

Many thanks

Yes, there is packet loss, most likely due to contention on the pipe at eclipse, where it starts. Please be aware though, edge systems are designed to drop pings if busy or low priority and usage is above

Here is mine from mobile

I would contact your provider with the pathping results and raise it as an issue

Many thanks

John

--- Trace to 81.91.248.51 ---

1) 192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1) 44.111 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss
2) host81-148-160-1.in-addr.btopenworld.com (81.148.160.1) 54.010 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
3) 213.120.182.141 (213.120.182.141) 51.694 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
4) 213.120.161.82 (213.120.161.82) 41.908 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
5) 213.120.182.65 (213.120.182.65) 36.304 ms, 17/17 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
6) 31.55.164.107 (31.55.164.107) 48.911 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
7) 109.159.248.63 (109.159.248.63) 44.707 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
8) core2-te0-3-0-3.ealing.ukcore.bt.net (109.159.248.150) 30.981 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
9) peer5-te0-9-0-9.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net (62.172.102.5) 31.101 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 2856] United Kingdom
10) t2c4-et-8-1-0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net (166.49.211.248) 42.373 ms, 15/16 ps, 6.2% loss [AS 5400] United Kingdom
11) 5-2-1.ear2.london15.level3.net (212.187.173.89) 52.745 ms, 13/16 ps, 18.8% loss [AS 3356] United Kingdom
12) ae-12-vl-3201.edge3.london2.level3.net (4.69.202.178) 66.303 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 3356] European Union
13) te0-1-0.bdr02.ln1.qubenet.net (195.50.91.198) 109.393 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 3356] United Kingdom
14) te-2-1.core1.ln1.qubenet.net (81.19.54.177) 120.216 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 29668] United Kingdom
15) 81.91.248.51 (81.91.248.51) 93.412 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 29668] United Kingdom
16) 81.91.248.51 (81.91.248.51) 80.957 ms, 16/16 ps, 0.0% loss [AS 29668] United Kingdom

How did you carry out the above trace?
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d2d4j

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Re: Network Latency on FTTC
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2017, 06:36:09 PM »
Hi elliotchandler

Many thanks and it's a little app for mobile called nice trace

Tracert only routes the path taken

Please be aware that most of the packet loss programs may go funny on results sometimes, so your always best to do 3 or 4, and it depends upon the time of day run, as each should give a slightly different answer

For issues with isp, I would always use pathping over any apps/programs, and best to be run hardwired not wifi

You can lookup a Whois on the IP address to see the AS number, but Whois normally show the provider name

Many thanks

John
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