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Author Topic: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile  (Read 1287 times)

PhilipD

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ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« on: February 07, 2017, 10:47:57 AM »

Hi

Over at ISPreview they've said the 3db VDSL profile will be excluded from ECI cabinets, so that is no G.INP (although that may still happen but breath not holding) and now no 3db profile to add to the negatives of being on ECI kit.  Presumably we can say vectoring if it happens will only be Huawei cabinets also.

At least Long Reach G.FastNotSoFast hangs from the PCP so ECI cabinets don't make a difference in deployment, unless of course they find ECI cabinets collapse and fall over on hearing the G.Fast signal as crosstalk and refuse to let anyone sync at all.

Nice one BT Openreach at the choice of ECI equipment.

Regards

Phil



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skyeci

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 10:52:46 AM »

Its possible G.INP may return from April 2017 if the testing went well  which was supposed to have been oct-dec 2016. I would guess if G.INP did work then perhaps we would see the new profiles..



Roll on April in hope...
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Sky Fibre Pro -  Zyxel vmg8324 modem (v14 bridge mode) + PFSENSE (APU2C4) 2.4.0 with ipv6 , AC-88U WAP- ECI cab, G.INP disabled as of 8th April 2016

http://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk user upload ID skyECI

Bowdon

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2017, 11:35:35 AM »

I think our only hope for any kind of parity will be when G.fast nodes go up. It'll be huawei and nokia who make the nodes.

I just had a thought.. If the fibre signal passes through the cabinet to the G.fast node, then won't G.fast be controlling the signal quality?

I guess we need to know what the node actually does to see if it can be our saviour.
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BT Infinity 2 - HG612 & Asus RT-N66U - ECI Cab

blue166

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2017, 01:25:59 PM »

So, is G.Fast actually going to work with ECI cabs?

I am starting to get a little annoyed with what I am reading about ECI equipment.
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ktz392837

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 01:46:59 PM »

Yea I saw the same article.

<moan>

I can understand that distance to exchange and distance to cab is under control of the customer they can always move house but it was BTs decision to use ECI cabinets so in my opinion they should swap to cabs that work and give same performance as the Huaweis.

I used to have 90/30 connection (possibly more so was enjoying 80/20 for 18months+) but now down to 55/15 due to crosstalk.

Every time I sign a new contract I have to accept a lower estimated speed as BT keep lowering the estimate of the line so it makes it next to impossible for them to accept a fault as they use the ever dropping speed estimate instead of the initial estimate from several years back.

My line would more than likely be capable of 80/20 on a Huawei cab using Ginp and certainly with 3db.

BT should be using all their research time in fixing the ECI cabs before any further enhancements are applied to the Huaweis.

</moan>
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 01:50:46 PM by ktz392837 »
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PhilipD

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 02:06:02 PM »

Hi

So, is G.Fast actually going to work with ECI cabs?

I am starting to get a little annoyed with what I am reading about ECI equipment.

G.Fast will be at the PCP and is completely new equipment, so should be unaffected by the cabinet that serves VDSL. 

G.Fast currently is being tested not using the same frequencies as VDSL, it skips the lower frequencies of VDSL and uses the ones higher up, of course this makes G.Fast more G.NotSoFast because it becomes even more line length sensitive, and could lead to the situation where someone swaps from VDSL to G.Fast and ends up with no speed increase or indeed a slower speed than VDSL they upgraded from.  Presumably BT will ensure their database and ordering systems stop those customers that wouldn't benefit from G.Fast from ordering. Because there are no cross over in frequencies then the cabinet even if ECI shouldn't really be affected by G.Fast.

However, they are currently looking at changing G.NotSoFast to use the same VDSL frequencies, this will give rise to a lot of extra cross talk from a different technology which will impact VDSL customers speeds.  Hopefully ECI cabinets will not be too badly affected but we might have the situation where Huawei cabinets can be tweaked and have firmware updated to make them less susceptible to interoperability issues caused by cross-talk of G.Fast borrowing the same frequencies, with ECI cabinets failing to be update-able in the same way or as tolerant of the cross-talk.  If this happens we may get the situation where G.Fast can't use the lower VDSL frequencies where the PCP is partnered with an ECI cabinet, meaning slower G.Fast speeds where an ECI cab sits nearby.

Regards

Phil
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j0hn

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 03:45:34 PM »

Presumably we can say vectoring if it happens will only be Huawei cabinets also.
That's not presumably, that's a definite. Huawei cabinets can be upgraded to use system level vectoring. The ECI M41's contain VTU-C64 line cards which can only support vectoring at a line card level.
It's a terribly inefficient method of vectoring. It would require every ECI cabinet to be rearranged so that each individual bundle goes to the same line card. ECI's will never have vectoring.
So, is G.Fast actually going to work with ECI cabs?
Nothing to do with the FTTC cab. G.Fast isn't connected to the fibre cab, but to the PCP.
G.Fast will work from PCP's with Huawei, ECI, mix of both, or no FTTC cab at all.
Its possible G.INP may return from April 2017 if the testing went well  which was supposed to have been oct-dec 2016. I would guess if G.INP did work then perhaps we would see the new profiles..
Testing must have went well as it's planned for March now.
If that goes to plan they may look at the (x)dB SNRM target for ECI cabinets.

Naming it a 3dB trial is a little misleading as no line will go straight to 3dB. From the trial we've seen it goes from the current 6dB, to 5dB, to 4dB, then 3dB.
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BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG8924 bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U - minted on MDWS via DslStats

Bowdon

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 04:11:14 PM »

I'm trying to get this straight in my head.

Is the PCP the older looking cabinet located near to the fibre cabinet?

If this is the case then is it;

1. PCP -> G.fast node -> Fibre cabinet -> customer OR

2. PCP -> G.fast node -> customer ?
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BT Infinity 2 - HG612 & Asus RT-N66U - ECI Cab

skyeci

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 04:30:59 PM »

That's not presumably, that's a definite. Huawei cabinets can be upgraded to use system level vectoring. The ECI M41's contain VTU-C64 line cards which can only support vectoring at a line card level.
It's a terribly inefficient method of vectoring. It would require every ECI cabinet to be rearranged so that each individual bundle goes to the same line card. ECI's will never have vectoring.Nothing to do with the FTTC cab. G.Fast isn't connected to the fibre cab, but to the PCP.
G.Fast will work from PCP's with Huawei, ECI, mix of both, or no FTTC cab at all.Testing must have went well as it's planned for March now.
If that goes to plan they may look at the (x)dB SNRM target for ECI cabinets.

Naming it a 3dB trial is a little misleading as no line will go straight to 3dB. From the trial we've seen it goes from the current 6dB, to 5dB, to 4dB, then 3dB.


Can you post where the march info was please. I posted OR comments which did indicate april. I am all for March if thats the case but interested where you found this.

Thanks
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Sky Fibre Pro -  Zyxel vmg8324 modem (v14 bridge mode) + PFSENSE (APU2C4) 2.4.0 with ipv6 , AC-88U WAP- ECI cab, G.INP disabled as of 8th April 2016

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j0hn

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 05:02:38 PM »

here. AndyHCZ is a reliable source.
I've read it on multiple sources.
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Chrysalis

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 05:42:33 PM »

3db I expect is dependent on working g.inp hence no ECI for now on the 3db DRM.  But if the g.inp rollout this spring is successful then ECI should get the 3db profiles after.
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Sky Fiber Pro - Billion 8800NL bridge & PFSense BOX running PFSense 2.4 - ECI Cab

skyeci

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 05:50:10 PM »

here. AndyHCZ is a reliable source.
I've read it on multiple sources.

Thanks, if it is that great but still not from OR directly so fingers crossed.. OR official update as I posted some months back did say april. Hope its wrong..
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Sky Fibre Pro -  Zyxel vmg8324 modem (v14 bridge mode) + PFSENSE (APU2C4) 2.4.0 with ipv6 , AC-88U WAP- ECI cab, G.INP disabled as of 8th April 2016

http://www.mydslwebstats.co.uk user upload ID skyECI

j0hn

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 06:02:08 PM »

Thanks, if it is that great but still not from OR directly so fingers crossed.. OR official update as I posted some months back did say april. Hope its wrong..
He works for OpenReach I believe. The 3dB profile and further DLM changes also happening in March so makes sense. That last update was also from back in August so a change by a couple weeks wouldn't be a surprise.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 06:05:43 PM by j0hn »
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Bowdon

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2017, 06:26:37 PM »

here. AndyHCZ is a reliable source.
I've read it on multiple sources.

I wonder how this will work with people using unlocked HG612 modems?

I noticed he said that a modem firmware would be released. But on the unlocked modems we arent upgrading the firmware. I wonder it'll still work for us or am I going to have to buy home hub?
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BT Infinity 2 - HG612 & Asus RT-N66U - ECI Cab

ejs

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Re: ECI connected customers, no 3db profile
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2017, 06:42:17 PM »

A firmware update for the ECI modems, not applicable or necessary for the Huawei HG612 modems.

Other modem/routers using the Lantiq chipset generally seemed to already have much newer Lantiq firmware than what was in the ECI modems, although we don't have much information on what's actually within the ECI modem firmware. From June 2015, the ECI modem had 05.06.07.05.01.06. Third-party Lantiq devices are already using 5.7.x.x.x.x.
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