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[spitz]

It is up to me to bug my ISP to arrange for someone to get up there. The SFI guy promised to do it and I just found out that his report is now closed (4 days after the visit) and no hoist is coming. In my book that's lying.


Pole tagging:

[NewtronStar]

It is up to me to bug my ISP to arrange for someone to get up there.

No point in talking the talk unless you can walk the walk, and if you want something done these days you need to use all the avenues open to you and that my take an email to the CEO of Openreach 

[Black Sheep]

After 5 engineer visits I finally got an SFI to come to the house...
His PQT didn't pass and he located HR fault on the pole across the road. He just like the others refused to climb the pole and fix the issue claiming that a hoist has to come even though a 10yo kid can climb on there.

The saga continues as I'm waiting for his report to be closed (4 days since the visit) so my ISP can book yet another engineer.

Is it a common pattern that engineers don't want to use their ladders?! 

Typical response from the clueless.

SAFETY is paramount where I work, (Openreach) as it should be. If there is a reason that the pole can not be climbed, then that's the engineers call, he/she have the absolute final say on this regardless of whether the Queen herself is stood there saying everything is safe.

Another clueless trait is commenting on the test date of the pole, does that mean it will not ever decay again after the test date ?? We always test the pole again ourselves, before we climb.

There are umpteen reasons why a pole may not be climbed, and I really can't be bothered going into them all, suffice to say I would much rather know those engineers who attended your premises get to go home to their families, rather than risking their neck to give an EU a few Mbps more.

There is obviously a fault at the DP, and it appears that a Hoist is indeed required. Why it hasn't happened thus far I have no idea, why would I, but if you have an issue take it up with the higher echelon. Don't blanket assume the engineers 'have no interest' in resolving the problem, you haven't any idea of what may be preventing a Hoist carrying out the work, just like anybody else commenting on the thread, me included.

[Chrysalis]

is there more a health and safety mindset now? it just seems 10 years ago it would have been done but now the engineers wont do it for risk of falling? i still am with the OP tho as the engineer could have booked the work in the presence of the OP to show the job wasnt been dropped but instead it got closed. makes you wonder how many potential faults get closed simply because it requires climbing to reach something. also as i said if the poles are deemed too dangerous to maintain then remove them.

[Black Sheep]

is there more a health and safety mindset now? it just seems 10 years ago it would have been done but now the engineers wont do it for risk of falling? i still am with the OP tho as the engineer could have booked the work in the presence of the OP to show the job wasnt been dropped but instead it got closed. makes you wonder how many potential faults get closed simply because it requires climbing to reach something. also as i said if the poles are deemed too dangerous to maintain then remove them.

Quick response, as this is a massive debate.

H&S has always been there, you can call BT all you like (as I do from time to time), but H&S REALLY is paramount to them, and has been since I started over 30yrs ago.

Raising a Hoist task isn't as simple as you might imagine. There are only 'so many' on each patch and they have trialled numerous ways to make them more efficient. Simply out, there is no 'best way' and it could be a few days before the Hoist is free to attend that particular fault. I have a feeling the OP's task may have been accidentally closed by a manual operator somewhere ?? It happens.

Back to poles ..........as the years tick by from when they went into the ground, defects start to raise their heads. For example it was found a few years back that a certain batch (thousands of poles) that were treated by a Liverpool company, were massively faulty. As a result these poles although still in the ground, are not allowed to be climbed. I could give many more examples but won't.

Of course, there are programmes in place to replace defective poles, etc ......... but like anything, there's a budget, and if it is deemed acceptable to utilise Hoists in the interim then so be it. Wouldn't want to divert all that money from the G.Fast roll-out now, would we  .

To conclude, I'm with the OP in his angst at the time being taken to repair his fault, but as you well know Chrys, the one thing that gets my goat is blanket-bashing BT or its engineers with no idea whatsoever of the rules & regs, safety issues, resourcing, blah-de-blah ............... I agree though that this needs flagging further up the chain of command.

[spitz]

I don't think anybody is questioning H&S here. What I am questioning is the way the engineers approached the issue.

This is what happened this morning. Engineer and a hoist were at the pole.... Installing a line for another house.
When I spoke to the hoist operator he explained that any engineer can call for a hoist that very day if that's what he needs to complete the job.

I also don't think sending emails to the CEO is the right way to get my issue sorted.... Back on the waiting list for engineer appointment...

[Black Sheep]

I don't think anybody is questioning H&S here. What I am questioning is the way the engineers approached the issue.

This is what happened this morning. Engineer and a hoist were at the pole.... Installing a line for another house.
When I spoke to the hoist operator he explained that any engineer can call for a hoist that very day if that's what he needs to complete the job.

I also don't think sending emails to the CEO is the right way to get my issue sorted.... Back on the waiting list for engineer appointment...

Nobody's questioning that either ............ whether one is available is the point in question. For the engineer visiting your premises and requesting the Hoist, it can be an absolute god-send for them. The Hoist has to have a 'Bottom man' (There's that H&S again !!) in case of hydraulic failure of the equipment. Guess who that 'Bottom man' is ..... that's right, the engineer already at your premises.

So, if a Hoist can be sourced pretty quickly (an hour or so), it means the engineer gets to sit on his ar5e drinking a brew at the local café, or feet up in the van reading a newspaper, whatever ............ the point being for the most part it is a golden nugget for the engineer to require a Hoist, and to jeopardize this chance to take his foot of the gas for a wee-while wouldn't make sense !!

There is usually a good explanation in most cases for delays in repairs, but of course Joe Public with the aid of a forum and the usual negativity that goes with it, tend to know better.
Like I say, your case may be the one that goes against the grain, and is a genuine cock-up from start to finish. But, knowing EXACTLY how Openreach operate and the finite standards we have to work to for statistical purposes, it will be strange if it is ??

[Black Sheep]

PS ............. does it now also put your (and a few others on here commenting) mind at rest, that the other engineers weren't telling porkies about not being able to climb the pole for one reason or another ??

The new installation on your neighbours premises with your subsequent picture of the Hoist attending site, should go some way into doing so.

[Ronski]

Whats clear to me is the lack of information,  and follow up, the EU can't simply phone Open Reach to find out what's happening so gets frustrated.

Surely if another job was scheduled for the cherry picker at the pole then it would make sense for both to be done at the same time, so either the job has been closed for whatever reason,  or lack of planning.

[Chrysalis]

BS spitz already answered what was going to be my reply.

I was going to say I bet there would be no issue climbing (accessing) the pole to fit a new line (which is extra revenue from new customer), and he has already seen one climb his pole to fit a new line.

But I still accept your explanation, it just seems there is some processes and attitude problems with how faults are dealt with in certain parts of openreach.

So yes I respect health and safety has to be adhered to, it is very important, just unfortunate how his engineer handled the situation.

That pic may explain why my pole never gets touched They would never be able to park a vehicle that way for my pole given its right at a main road junction.  Unless they did at like 4am.

[spitz]

Why do we as end users need to know about OR standards and protocols?! We pay whatever monthly fees we have been asked to pay in return for a service + support. All an EU cares about is that the service works properly and if it doesn't the support makes sure service is restored. It is not EUs job to know that there is a fault on the DP, a hoist has to come or how OR operates. Yes, there is the ISP in the middle but how much can they do except book yet another appointment...

The reason why I and probably a lot of the folks on this public forum know about this is because if we don't, we'd never get our lines fixed.

I strongly believe there are plenty of highly skilled OR engineers out there as I have spoken to a few of them on the street. The 6 visits I had at my house will probably fall under the category of "bad luck". But then again, Black Sheep, if there are so many standards in place how come the "system" allows for 6 visits at the same property without raising any red flags? How come there is no way for the issue to be escalated so it can be resolved once and for all? Ultimately every time an engineer goes out someone has to pay for it. There is certainly something wrong going on. So... If there are so many standards in place, what do I do when the next engineer (that would be #7) arrives on Wednesday and says "it connects, can't do more"? Do I show him the graphs, do I play him the recordings of the noisy line, do I show him that every time I pick up the phone or it rings the broadband disconnects? So far they didn't seem to care about that and again, it's not EU's job to do that!

[Black Sheep]

<sigh>. I'll leave you with it. Proper can't be ar5sed.  #engineer 8

[burakkucat]

A brief note to say that this thread has definitely taken a "wrong turn". 

If it is to continue to remain open for further contributions please consider the appropriateness of what you are about to post.

[Bowdon]

I was just reading through the thread. I think a lot of it is rules on top of rules.

I think streamlining the system will be one of the top priorities for the new OR board. I'm sure it doesn't suit anyone to have multiple visits to a house. OR hopefully will have a more hands on approach with its own accountability when it comes to the phone/broadband side of things.

It would be good to have more information about fault progress etc... I'm sure if the EU could see the difficulties and procedures that BT / OR staff work with then they would be more tolerant of any delays.

For example say if OR were delayed due to planning permission by a council, then it would give the EU the right place to put some blame on the council, and hopefully if a particular council was regularly delaying things then if enough people complained it might change things for the everyone.

[Chrysalis]

Yep, and they would see this information if the CPs werent the middle man.