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Author Topic: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem  (Read 2961 times)

burakkucat

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2017, 03:42:13 PM »

. . . How do I get them to get stuck in and look at some of the joints in my 4.3kl line instead of just putting the tester in the test socket.

That would require your ISP/CP to specify exactly what jobs they require to be performed, when requesting an appointment for an Openreach technician's visit.
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tickmike

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2017, 08:23:10 PM »

Another day another BTOR 'General' engineer/technician but this time he got a colleague to come with him who was an SFI .
After cups of tea  and jedec testing said the line was good even though I played them a recording of the noisy phone line that I recorded before they came and as normal a QLT was quite when they tried it.  >:D
The SFI chap said that a 'Lift and shift' could be tried next but he was not booked on this job so could not perform it.  :o :(
I contacted my ISP Eclipse but because they said it is a phone line fault would not book a SFI and contact BT.
I tried BT my phone line provider and they said they could not book an SFI it had to be my ISP.  :'( >:D


Another 'general' engineer/technician  is booked for Thursday. waste of time. >:(

I have put a complaint in with BT and escalated it.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 08:50:35 PM by tickmike »
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j0hn

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2017, 02:13:38 AM »

Complain to OpenReach, or Eclipse. BT being your voice provider obviously cannot book you a broadband engineer.

Eventually one gets fed up and goes right to the top. Days later multiple vans seem to turn up and work starts to happen. Seeing as OpenReach are the only ones who can fix this, I would be going to the top there. I had huge success emailing a chap called Clive  ::)
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tickmike

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2017, 11:16:09 AM »

Yes I think we are at that point now this has been going on too long and getting nowhere fast.
I will construct an email tonight with all the facts in.
to
clive.selley@openreach.co.uk

http://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=ceo-9593

I'm also going to rig up my old Speedtouch 536 V6 modem/router that my ISP sent me years ago and hook it up, I think them seeing an un-locked HG612 modem and all my hardware fire-wall is too much as they do not understand it .

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I RECOMMEND TRYING / USING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com) .
I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

tickmike

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2017, 08:48:44 PM »

Just sent an email to   Clive Selley    clive.selley@openreach.co.uk   CEO of BTOR.   

Now lets see if we get someone who does not just want to rely on his 'Jedec'  tester and who wants to get to the bottom of this on going POT's line problem.  :)
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I RECOMMEND TRYING / USING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com) .
I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

H4rry

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2017, 01:54:05 PM »

I've just had a read over your experience and it's uncanny how similar it is to my intermittent HR case.

I started wondering why I had experienced Quiet Line Tests full of crackles and noise but when any internal engineer would plug the Jedec into the test socket and run tests, it would be noise free.

I went and bought an extra corded handset for running tests and I started noticing that the crackles happened more frequently on a different handset. at that point I started to wonder whether different handsets requested more current from the loop circuit than other handsets when off-hook and whether the amount of current had any bearing on the HR/semi-conductive joint (ohms law anyone?).

I then started thinking that the Jedec may pull an amount of current that effected the HR joint. If not the Jedec maybe a PQ test that sends 100 volts down the line somehow effects the HR joint and the noise goes away for a short amount of time totally eluding the engineer at the time of testing...

To try and test that theory I was wondering whether a multimeter reading voltage in parallel or connected in series to read current between different handsets would shed some light. But at that time the HR fault was discovered and fixed so it will probably remain a theory.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 01:59:32 PM by H4rry »
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Black Sheep

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2017, 03:04:14 PM »

I've just had a read over your experience and it's uncanny how similar it is to my intermittent HR case.

I started wondering why I had experienced Quiet Line Tests full of crackles and noise but when any internal engineer would plug the Jedec into the test socket and run tests, it would be noise free.

I went and bought an extra corded handset for running tests and I started noticing that the crackles happened more frequently on a different handset. at that point I started to wonder whether different handsets requested more current from the loop circuit than other handsets when off-hook and whether the amount of current had any bearing on the HR/semi-conductive joint (ohms law anyone?).

I then started thinking that the Jedec may pull an amount of current that effected the HR joint. If not the Jedec maybe a PQ test that sends 100 volts down the line somehow effects the HR joint and the noise goes away for a short amount of time totally eluding the engineer at the time of testing...

To try and test that theory I was wondering whether a multimeter reading voltage in parallel or connected in series to read current between different handsets would shed some light. But at that time the HR fault was discovered and fixed so it will probably remain a theory.

Just for info really H4rry ............. the testers we use at OR engineering level are JDSU or EXFO hand-Held Testers.

You are quite right with your PQT observations in that the normal PQT will remotely apply 100v as part of the scripted test, and this can 'dry out' or mask a small HR-type fault.
However, over the last 12months, our tech-heads have introduced a 'Delta R' test, which tests at a lot lower voltage (couldn't say exactly what voltage), so as not to mask the HR.

The 'Delta R' can be run as a singleton test, or on a JDSU can be run as part of a scripted test. I wouldn't know about the EXFO as I don't use one ??
The two possibilities presented on the JDSU when running a mandatory PQT are .........

1) Auto-protective PQT (This has 'Delta R' as part of the script)
2) Standard PQT.

If an EU has a high number of repeat visits it is advisable to run No.1.  :)
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4candles

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2017, 03:17:17 PM »

@ H4rry...  BS has answered your main query, but just to clarify your point about using different handsets.


Exchange lines are current limited, so if you connect a meter in series with a handset, you'll measure something very close to 40mA, unless you're on an unusually long line. Now put the meter straight across the line, and it will still read 40mA, even if you are in the exchange.
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tubaman

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2017, 03:22:15 PM »

I think it is right to say that different phones will pull different amounts of line current.
I have a collection of old Bakelite phones and some will pull the line voltage right down to about 5V when off-hook whereas others only pull it down to about 9V.
I've never actually measured the line current but clearly there are differences.
 :)
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tickmike

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2017, 04:29:12 PM »

Since sending my email last nigh to the CEO of BTOR I've had several emails back from high level BT and BTOR staff, saying that things will start to happen tomorrow to solve this noisy line and thanked me for the very detail technical info I had sent them.
We hope.  ;D
I had a phone call from my daughter and it was very noisy and the modem dropped out again but a call I had before that and was ok..
The modem dropping out is the secondary effect of the bad joint.
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I RECOMMEND TRYING / USING PCLinuxOS (www.pclinuxos.com) .
I have a set of 8 fixed IP's From my Eclipse isp.
BT ADSL2 line>HG612 set as a Modem, Bridge, WAN not Bound to LAN1 or 2 >Smoothwall (Hardware Firewall and routing) > Ethernet LAN, DMZ,WiFI LAN and Spare LAN .
DSLstats LAN2  linked Ethernet

burakkucat

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2017, 04:39:36 PM »

Exchange lines are current limited, so if you connect a meter in series with a handset, you'll measure something very close to 40mA, unless you're on an unusually long line. Now put the meter straight across the line, and it will still read 40mA, even if you are in the exchange.

It was just last month (being the first month of the new year) that I decided to perform another test. With the appropriate "lollipop" plugged into the exposed "test" socket of the NTE5/A, my Fluke 8022B was connected directly across the pair. With the voltage range selected, a steady 49.7 V was noted. With the current range selected, a steady 27.9 mA was observed.

Let's call it 50 V and 28 mA. Hence an apparent resistance of 1785 Ohms for the metallic pathway and the terminating electronics.

Using the Kitz Broadband Exchange & Line Checker the approximate distance between The Cattery and EABSE is 1.8 km (direct) and 2.9 km (by road). Knowing the location of PCP28 in relation to both the serving exchange and myself, I estimate the total circuit length to be of the order of 3.2 km.
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burakkucat

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2017, 04:44:18 PM »

. . . I've had several emails back from high level BT and BTOR staff, saying that things will start to happen tomorrow to solve this noisy line and thanked me for the very detail technical info I had sent them.

A small step in the right direction.  :)
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H4rry

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2017, 05:32:08 PM »

@BlackSheep
Thanks for clarifying that. I thought there was something odd about noise disappearing when an internal engineer was on site. I specifically remember that a regular PQ test was done on a number of occasions. I'm not sure if a 'Delta R' test was ever run.

@4candles and tubaman
Thanks for the info. Make's sense then that different handsets may expose the noise more than others. Would be beneficial to find a handset that was particularly noisy due to a HR fault on the line and then see what it is about the handset that exacerbates the noise. That way customers with a suspected HR fault may have a better chance of presenting the noise to an engineer when they visit.

@burakkucat
Did you ever test current in series whilst noting on-hook/off-hook current?

@tickmike
It definitely sounds like you've put the wind up 'em :) It might be beneficial to mention a 'Delta R' test to the next engineer, seeing as a regular PQT may mask an intermittent HR contact leaving all present scratching heads and shrugging shoulders.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 05:35:42 PM by H4rry »
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aesmith

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2017, 07:19:52 PM »

I had zillions of pair quality tests done when we had a noisy line, without the instrument coming up with anything.  It only got fixed once the OR guy started opening up joints and listening for noise at various points, however once that was done they got it sorted very quickly.   Mine wasn't intermittent though
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burakkucat

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Re: Using The Phone Re-Sync Modem
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2017, 07:34:36 PM »

@burakkucat
Did you ever test current in series whilst noting on-hook/off-hook current?

Current and voltage, with a telephone on-/off-hook? No, I have never considered performing that test . . . as every telephone could show different results.
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