Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[niemand]

That doesn't necessarily show any problem with congestion.  The green ping line is flat.  Usually speed affecting congestion appears with the green following upwards as well, plus you get to see definite peak times in the graph rather than an all day of some pings with a slightly higher latency.  See the examples at http://www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/sections/bqm.html.

The green line is minimum latency within a 60 second period, based on samples taken every second in that minute.

Pings are usually treated as low priority so any gateway/router that is busy (but not necessarily congested) will treat pings with the lowest priority, including your own router.

Actually no, on most routers as far as the TBB BQM goes they aren't. If the router is just forwarding them it'll get as far as looking at the destination IP address, place them into an expedited forwarding queue and send them on. The reason carrier grade routers may deprioritise pings that have a TTL that requires a response from them as in the case of a traceroute, or have a destination of an interface on them is because they leave their routing plane and go into their control plane, so are dealt with differently from traffic they are simply forwarding. Home routers that have these issues are the exception rather than the rule as they tend to use an SoC which has its own routing components that include responding to pings.

CPU on my own router is pretty low as a general rule. It's rated for nearly 1Gb WAN to LAN throughput and is using cut-through forwarding for packets so is running pretty quietly. Plus, the spikes in latency persist even when not in use.

I've verified the jitter by pinging a couple of different locations at peak times. I have no reason to think my own equipment is at fault, especially given all was fine with the exact same set up before Christmas and before TalkTalk Business changed my LNS to one in London.

Have you checked your data usage during a period you aren't using the connection yourself, for example overnight, just to make sure something isn't happening that is using bandwidth constantly, causing the congestion at your end?

Yes, I have indeed. My router shows usage per client, per hour, alongside aggregated statistics.

[Chrysalis]

It is very easy to see if the router is to blame, and that is to see what happens when you use the connection off peak, as the router has no concept of peak and off peak times.

I am pretty sure ignition is knowledgeable enough to already rule out his equipment.

[niemand]

Those are famous last words and shouldn't be taken for granted.

I have some work to do on the home network to prepare for dual-WAN again anyway which will eliminate my own router's PPP termination from the equation. I'm going to have the Huawei terminate the PPP tunnel and handle NAT for me, feeding an RFC1918 address to my router, with my router as its DMZ. This will allow use of full acceleration on the router as all IP.

I am pretty sure it will also mean the Huawei responds to pings on the WAN itself, however I'm not 100% sure. It may forward to DMZ.

Something else that makes me point the blame away from my kit is that I see the higher latency on pings through my router, and I feel the loss and jitter while gaming, but only at peak times. I have run an iPerf test off-peak through my kit capped at 50% of the link bandwidth, along with using QoS to prioritise the gaming traffic and latency and jitter were both virtually unchanged from baseline.

Going by when it happens I find myself wondering if there are too many customers connected to my LNS.

[jaydub]

I think TTB may have been doing something as a result of the ticket that Pulse8 raised.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=148491160417956285839

I'm guessing that this is only an interim stage, as this is pretty impressive of a 38 connection!!

I've just chased P8 for some feedback on what is happening, but it looks as though Adam's positivity rating may be on the rise.

[jaydub]

.... and the feedback from Pulse8 is that they think the improvement is more than likely associated to a change in the back end networking as all Pulse8 customers are being regraded to improved TTB packages.

Whatever the underlying cause, the improvement is significant.

Now trying to establish why my line is giving me >70 Mbps single thread results, when I am only paying for a 38 Home line.

[PhilipD]

Hi

.... and the feedback from Pulse8 is that they think the improvement is more than likely associated to a change in the back end networking as all Pulse8 customers are being regraded to improved TTB packages.

Whatever the underlying cause, the improvement is significant.

Now trying to establish why my line is giving me >70 Mbps single thread results, when I am only paying for a 38 Home line.

Your line and package must be back to 80/20, either temporary to allow them to get test results or a mistake has seen you go back to the faster package, whether they are charging you or not for the faster package or if it remains on your account, time will tell.

Good to see they are improving things.

Regards

Phil

[jaydub]

Hi

Your line and package must be back to 80/20, either temporary to allow them to get test results or a mistake has seen you go back to the faster package, whether they are charging you or not for the faster package or if it remains on your account, time will tell.

Good to see they are improving things.

Regards

Phil

I've had an interesting dialogue with them this afternoon.  It appears that they hadn't kept their admin up to date, so I had been upgraded to their 76XL package inadvertently.

Much as the temptation was to keep quite, I have been 'Honest Jon' and told them.  They made an error with my January invoice, so I worked out what must have happened and I've elected to stay on their 76XL package now its giving full speed.

I can also confirm, it was the move of the Pulse8 lines to the new kit that has resulted in the speed difference.

I have seen the TTB response back to Pulse8 and I'm not impressed with what I saw.

There's no point in moving anywhere at the moment if the line continues to give full speed, but I will be looking for a bolt hole should the line degrade again.

I'm intrigued how A&A and Uno manage their TTB connections, as Pulse8 don't appear to get much leverage from TTB unless the line speed measured by the TTB speed test (multi thread and on their network) falls below the threshold level (~63 Mbps on my line).

I can't help thinking that the more technical ISPs (A&A, Uno, Zen, IDNet, etc) are capable of delivering a better service, albeit for a few more ££s.

Appreciate all your help.

Thanks,

Jon

[jaydub]

The routing has changed, as might be expected.

#    Host    Sent    Recvd    Best    Avg    Worst
1    thinkbroadband-gw2.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net   15   15   1ms   10ms   120ms
2    po4-31.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net   15   15   0ms   1ms   15ms
3    ge-11-0-0-scr010.the.as13285.net   15   15   0ms   3ms   36ms
4    host-78-144-14-1.as13285.net   15   15   0ms   6ms   51ms
5    host-78-144-9-20.as13285.net   15   15   5ms   7ms   25ms
6    host-78-151-229-213.as13285.net   15   15   6ms   7ms   11ms
7    81.1.113.12   15   15   7ms   8ms   14ms
8    xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com   15   15   10ms   10ms   11ms

compared to the old route:

My tracert to www.thinkbroadband.com is as follows:

#    Host    Sent    Recvd    Best    Avg    Worst
1    thinkbroadband-gw2.core-rs2.thdo.ncuk.net   15   15   0ms   2ms   3ms
2    po4-31.bdr-rt3.thdo.ncuk.net   15   15   0ms   10ms   157ms
3    ge-11-0-0-scr010.the.as13285.net   15   15   0ms   2ms   14ms
4    host-78-144-14-7.as13285.net   15   15   0ms   2ms   16ms
5    host-78-144-9-16.as13285.net   15   15   5ms   6ms   6ms
6    host-78-151-229-213.as13285.net   15   15   5ms   6ms   16ms
7    host-62-24-255-6.as13285.net   15   15   5ms   6ms   6ms
8    host-78-149-210-32.as13285.net   15   15   10ms   10ms   11ms

[PhilipD]

Hi

I'm intrigued how A&A and Uno manage their TTB connections, as Pulse8 don't appear to get much leverage from TTB unless the line speed measured by the TTB speed test (multi thread and on their network) falls below the threshold level (~63 Mbps on my line).

I'm not sure what the difference is exactly, but I assume Pulse8 are a reseller of TalkTalk products, it's essentially the same product just invoiced by a different company, whereas Uno and A&A purchase back-haul from TalkTalk just to get the customer into their own networks.

Good to hear you have it sorted out now.

Regards

Phil

[niemand]

I guess my issues might be more local in that case.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=148511885606282534130



Nice bit of congestion there, presumably due to a loss of a link, too.

[jaydub]

Hi

I'm not sure what the difference is exactly, but I assume Pulse8 are a reseller of TalkTalk products, it's essentially the same product just invoiced by a different company, whereas Uno and A&A purchase back-haul from TalkTalk just to get the customer into their own networks.

Good to hear you have it sorted out now.

Regards

Phil

Pulse8 are a direct reseller of TTB Wholesale and do very little more than provide first line support and invoicing services.  On the positive they do 30 day contracts on all products.

As your traceroute goes through the Daisy network, are Uno buying their backhaul from Daisy rather than directly off TTB?

Do you know if A&A purchase their back haul directly from TTB?

[Chrysalis]

I guess my issues might be more local in that case.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=148511885606282534130



Nice bit of congestion there, presumably due to a loss of a link, too.

what was going on with that doubled base latency and large packet loss?

[PhilipD]

Hi

Pulse8 are a direct reseller of TTB Wholesale and do very little more than provide first line support and invoicing services.  On the positive they do 30 day contracts on all products.

As your traceroute goes through the Daisy network, are Uno buying their backhaul from Daisy rather than directly off TTB?

Do you know if A&A purchase their back haul directly from TTB?

Yes they must be using Daisy for their backhaul.  My Gateway is a TalkTalk gateway, after that it's onto the Daisy Network, so I suspect they purchase the FTTC connectivity from TalkTalk just to get their customers onto their own network.  I don't know how A&A work, although I would think they do the same as Uno and are just buying connectivity from TalkTalk to get customers onto their own network.

Taken from https://www.talktalkbusiness.co.uk/partners/products/data/wholesale-connectivity/

Wholesale Connectivity provides a prioritised connection from the end-customer site through the TalkTalk Network and onto your network via an L2TP Interconnect. As a Partner, you can then add value to your customer by providing a range of internet, MPLS IPVPN or Voice services, all with great margin potential and exciting revenue opportunities.

So it will be different kettle of fish than Pulse8 just reselling a standard TalkTalk package.

Regards

Phil

[jaydub]

Hi Philip.

Thanks for the additional information.

I agree that Pulse8's offering is significantly different to the way A&A and Uno TTB based product offerings.  I'm a bit older and a lot wiser (or at least more knowledgeable!) than I was before I started this thread.

Cheers,

Jon

[jaydub]

Not looking great now.



Back on a 38 Product, even though I though i had agreed with Pulse8 to stay on 76XL.

I'm a bit confused as I was managing to access my work VPN and email whilst all that redness was going on.

Not feeling the love at the moment.