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Author Topic: Plusnet latency issues  (Read 9057 times)

huwwatkins

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Plusnet latency issues
« on: December 08, 2016, 07:53:12 AM »
Hi
I've just moved in to a house that only has 20CN ADSL (from a house with FTTC)  and am having some odd latency issues.

Line stats are good. 8128Kbps sync. 28db attenuation. 12db downstream noise margin.

I am using an Asus RT-N66U with an HG612 connected as a bridge, however I have also tried the Plusnet supplied Sagem router so rule that out (same issue on both routers)

Speedtests seem good:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html?id=148114603102847662411

However, as soon as there is any sort of traffic on the line the latency goes crazy. 1000ms+.

Here is an example pinging bbc.co.uk
Quote
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1364ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1327ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1340ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1477ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1281ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1458ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1537ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1490ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1534ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1502ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1684ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1607ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1672ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1737ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1639ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1538ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1470ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1506ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1535ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1463ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1538ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1574ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1481ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1496ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=1704ms TTL=53


and pathping to bbc.co.uk
Quote
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.22]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 DESKTOP-LP70AM4 [192.168.1.233]
1 router.asus.com [192.168.1.2]
2 lo0.central10.pcn-bng03.plus.net [195.166.130.250]
3 411.be7.pcn-ir02.plus.net [84.93.253.87]
4 195.99.125.144
5 peer2-et-1-3-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.127.23]
6 194.74.65.42
7 * * *
Computing statistics for 150 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 DESKTOP-LP70AM4 [192.168.1.233]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 1ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% router.asus.com [192.168.1.2]
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 338ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% lo0.central10.pcn-bng03.plus.net [195.166.130.250]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 331ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 411.be7.pcn-ir02.plus.net [84.93.253.87]
99/ 100 = 99% |
4 11ms 99/ 100 = 99% 0/ 100 = 0% 195.99.125.144
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 16ms 99/ 100 = 99% 0/ 100 = 0% peer2-et-1-3-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.127.23]
1/ 100 = 1% |
6 --- 100/ 100 =100% 0/ 100 = 0% 194.74.65.42

Trace complete.

Here's my TBB BQM graph for yesterday.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/37383b80bf2efb78e69fc691a57ec388-07-12-2016.html

The two solid red bit where where the router was unplugged. The calm bit overnight was when all devices were off and no traffic.

and today:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/monitors/share/4924c024d9ad17eecde343f2fbc8ae7b-08-12-2016.html

at 6am where the packet loss is the only thing connected was my smartphone!

I would appreciate any suggestions as to what might be going on here. The latency spikes are making the connection almost unusable.

I opened a ticket with plusnet on Tuesday but based on previous experience  I'm not sure how much help they will be.

Many thanks

Huw
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 08:54:02 AM by huwwatkins »
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kitzuser87430

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2016, 08:33:44 AM »
Huw

My first thought would be something uploading as a background task (your TBB BQM's are not working... 404's) as you have a hg612, instal DSLstats and enable traffic monitoring.

I am also on a 20C exchange and run a QOS on my upload because of insane pings when fully utilised.

Ian
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Ronski

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 08:44:46 AM »
Upload being swamped is also my first thought.
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Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 550/52  ;D

huwwatkins

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 08:52:13 AM »
I did wonder about the upload being swamped, I did look at the lan connection in task manager and couldn't see much traffic being uploaded but I'll look at this again.

QoS - should this be enabled on the 612 or the router?

I'll install DSL stats when I get home.

Many thanks for the replies - much appreciated :)

Broken links fixed :)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 08:54:17 AM by huwwatkins »
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kitzuser87430

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2016, 09:57:58 AM »
Quote
task manager and couldn't see much traffic being uploaded

As it is a 20C exchange and you have not mentioned max premium (£7/month from plusnet) your upload is capped at about 400 kbps and may not have registered on task mgr, it could easily be a phone or other device uploading as well as your PC.

Quote
QoS - should this be enabled on the 612 or the router?

On the router, not sure if the asus firmware has QOS; I have tomatoUSB on my N66U.

IAn
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Ronski

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2016, 10:07:09 AM »
Many years ago PN used to cap the upload, some excuse that it affected download speeds, not sure if they still apply that cap but may be worth investigating and if so request it to be removed. Note that it may not fix your problem but could give you more upload speed.
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Formerly restrained by ECI and ali,  now surfing along at 550/52  ;D

huwwatkins

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2016, 10:46:23 AM »
I've added the Max Premium add-on. I remember many moons ago when I had ADSL last the Premium add-on made quite a bit of difference.

I seem to recall it offers traffic priority at an exchange level too?
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aesmith

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2016, 11:20:27 AM »
I'm on 20CN.  When I was with Plusnet I had similar episodes that could be triggered by around 90k (bits per second) upload, ie only around 25% of the expected upload speed.   The case was open with Plusnet for around 7 months and I'm not sure they ever understood what was being reported, certainly they made no effort to investigate.   With A&A on the same line and with the same equipment the issue has gone away. 

Note that certainly with the Plusnet 2704N router you'll get these horrible latencies if you actually max out the upload, that router has the stupid idea that it's better to buffer packets for nearly two seconds instead of using a sensible queuing mechanism.
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huwwatkins

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2016, 11:28:32 AM »
Its unfortunate that AAISP aren't accepting connections from 20CN exchanges anymore.

I've got a second line going in with Origin Broadband in a couple of weeks. It will be interesting to see how they compare. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they do Max Premium
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huwwatkins

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 05:53:53 PM »
Enabled QoS in the router firmware doesn't seem to have made much difference - even though its supposed to prioratise ACK, SYN and ICMP packets.

This is my ping whilst browsing ebay...

Quote
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=236ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=73ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=196ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=89ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=190ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=124ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=45ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=15ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=68ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=130ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=11ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=13ms TTL=53
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aesmith

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2016, 07:22:37 PM »
That looks pretty good actually, in fact I'm surprised at your idle latency of 12ms.  From here our RTT to ntp.plus.net was around 45ms when interleaving is enabled as it should be, around 20ms less on fast path.
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huwwatkins

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2016, 07:40:59 PM »
Agreed - it is better. It's not in the 1000's that it was before.

Would you say this is normal for ADSL?  I don't recall it being that high when I had it last (admittedly this was 5 years ago and 8meg isn't as fast as it once was!)

It's a big difference from an almost flat ping of 20ms on FTTC. I guess that's becuase the syncing at almost 80Mbps it was never close to being maxed out.

Interestingly the idle ping is lower than my FTTC line.

The low ping might be due to my geographic location (hertfordshire).

I've got the Pro addon being enabled tomorrow so we'll see what difference that makes.

I've got another line being installed soon so hopefully can VPN bond them together for 16Mbps down and about 1.3 up but I'll post another topic on that.

Edit:

Ping whilst streaming netflix.

Quote
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=72ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=99ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=69ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=65ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=76ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=70ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=67ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=58ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=63ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=54ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=59ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=64ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.22: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=53

It would be useful if people on 20CN could post their pings for comparison.

Many thanks

Huw

« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 07:43:28 PM by huwwatkins »
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RealAleMadrid

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2016, 08:02:07 PM »
The Pro addon is of no use on an unlimited usage service, its a relic from years ago when certain traffic on capped usage services were throttled at different times of the day, so don't expect any benefit. Max premium is a faster upload speed (832 kbps I think ) on 20CN connections but costs a ridiculous £7.50 a month extra on top of an already high broadband price in PlusNet's non low cost areas which most 20CN exchanges are. :(
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kitzuser87430

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2016, 08:16:35 PM »
Quote
Ping whilst streaming netflix.

That looks good now.

Here is my TBB ping http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/monitors/share/43863578256fb46f055061aefaf9440a.html

My wife was/is downloading a 650 Mb phone update at 20:00

Code: [Select]
ping -c 20 212.58.244.22
PING 212.58.244.22 (212.58.244.22) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=44.8 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=45.7 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=52.1 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=4 ttl=50 time=231 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=5 ttl=50 time=152 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=6 ttl=50 time=49.5 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=7 ttl=50 time=44.6 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=8 ttl=50 time=116 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=9 ttl=50 time=48.2 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=10 ttl=50 time=45.9 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=11 ttl=50 time=53.9 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=12 ttl=50 time=47.2 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=13 ttl=50 time=45.1 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=14 ttl=50 time=46.5 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=15 ttl=50 time=91.9 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=16 ttl=50 time=46.0 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=17 ttl=50 time=47.6 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=18 ttl=50 time=60.6 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=19 ttl=50 time=57.0 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=20 ttl=50 time=47.6 ms

--- 212.58.244.22 ping statistics ---
20 packets transmitted, 20 received, 0% packet loss, time 19026ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 44.685/68.792/231.870/46.398 ms
And some raw data for you.

Ian
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jelv

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Re: Plusnet latency issues
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2016, 10:28:16 PM »
Quote from: Ronski on December 08, 2016, 10:07:09 AM
Many years ago PN used to cap the upload, some excuse that it affected download speeds, not sure if they still apply that cap but may be worth investigating and if so request it to be removed. Note that it may not fix your problem but could give you more upload speed.

That is on 21CN exchanges so totally irrelevant here!
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