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Author Topic: Another which ISP thread  (Read 2204 times)

broadstairs

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Re: Another which ISP thread
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2016, 08:09:00 PM »

The data may well be all there but its not presented in a way which makes it easy to see how much they would charge and how much per month it would be for FTTC and phone. Also I object to paying for privacy features on a phone line. At the very least called display and anonymous call reject should be free. I really dont see why its so hard to display example prices and clearly quote what migration charges would be from an LLU provider. I simply cannot be bothered to wade through all the stuff the have just to get an example price. Also the quote earlier of 40-42/month is more than TT would charge me at 37, plus I'd have to pay to migrate which I think is ridiculous when the phone line from here to the exchange will not change, all that would be required is probably a couple of jumpers at the exchange.

Stuart
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kitz

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Re: Another which ISP thread
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2016, 09:53:33 PM »

Caller display is a BIG rip off by the SPs, most of them charging anything from 99p to 2 per month for this feature. :rant:

The SP's are charged a paltry 0.45p per annum by Openreach to add this feature.   
That is one hell of a markup for something that requires absolutely no additional workload for the SP once it is set up.  They have to do nada.

This is one of the area's which really gets my goat particularly where Openreach gets all of the bad press for costs.  Its actually the SPs who are raking the money in for line rental.   Unlike DSL, phone line services require hardly any work or admin by the SPs yet their mark up for phone is astronomical.  The LLU ISPs were responsible for starting this by insisting on taking over the line rental so that large phone line prices could subsidise DSL.  The general public are being ripped off without even being aware :(
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Chrysalis

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Re: Another which ISP thread
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2016, 08:37:53 AM »

land lines are a rip off all over the shop

call setup costs
minute rates
caller display
voicemail

3 of the 4 are free on mobiles.

on minute rates landlines tend to also now have a minimum charge per call and round up also to inflate the costs of short calls, another thing mobiles dont have.

Where I think you got it wrong kitz is who is leading the ripoff pricing, BT retail tend to raise their line rental, and then others follow always making sure they only slightly undercut BT retail.  When LLU was new, line rental was actually close to wholesale costs, its in recent years post FTTC launch where it has skyrocketed.  Sky have always subsidised broadband via tv subs, I dont know what talktalk subsidised it with tho, I think talktalk was just making huge losses when it started.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 08:41:51 AM by Chrysalis »
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kitz

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Re: Another which ISP thread
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2016, 01:00:52 PM »

>>  BT retail tend to raise their line rental,

My line of thinking was it wasnt until the compulsory tie in of lines that prices started to rocket.  Yes BTr are also guilty because they do the headline grabbing introductory new customer offers that have to be clawed back somehow.  Another reason why I believe retail should be split off is that retail as just as bad as the others

Prior to 'tie ins' we could easily have a different line & broadband provider. Plus you have people like my uncle who was on pension credit and he only had to pay something like 7.50 for his phone line (this was a few years back now) and it made trying to find a DSL provider quite difficult as he only needed a very basic connection to check emails.  I kept my phone and DSL separate for many years until the point when it became quite a lot more.

Retail Line rental and its associated charges have become a rip off in the UK.  Unlike DSL there is very little work involved for the SP for line rental yet the mark-up in the region of 100% or more is ridiculous.

>> I dont know what talktalk subsidised it with tho,

iirc it was Dunstone and CarPhoneWarehouse and they projected  to make losses in the first year, but eventually once they had built up a sizeable customer base then it would turn around because they had lower operating costs.   Just tried to google to check but all that comes up is compare sites.
Did find this though - link where they blamed introduction of free broadband for their DPA security breaches. :-\
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les-70

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Re: Another which ISP thread
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2016, 02:17:24 PM »

  The way things are charged is real irritation to me.  I could have stayed with TTB but unless I threatened to leave and then let myself be locked into a new 2 years contract they cost too much. Much as i think Stuart is finding with TT home.  Many other ISP's are much the same.  I focused on uno and A&A so as escape from being annoyed in this way and with the low line rental costs like those of uno either were OK for me service and price wise i.e. less than TTB even with a new contract.  I picked uno as I need the proper phone line a did not want to mess with voip via A&A.  To use A&A I would have had to separate the normal phone from A&A.  They would not let me order from them until I had a BT line working or paid for an extra line with them.  That would mean 10 days with no service or the extra cost of another line.  In the end I picked uno for both phone and BB knowing that I could then switch the BB to A&A if needed and leave the phone with uno. 

  I guess what you choose depends on your past experience of faults.  I had total of three faults that needed sorting with TTB over 6 years.  Two faults were openreach ones and due to what seems to be tendency for loose wire faults in the CAB.  TTB were responsive but took some convincing as the faults were not continuous.  The other fault was a TT line card and even though it was their equipment it took ages to get them to recognize the issue and get it fixed.  This experience has made me reluctant to consider any customer service that might be worse than TTB. 

  I am not sure that most isp profits are excessive and I think the issues with the current system are as much due to the way consumers respond to offers and pricing systems as to a lack of action by ofcom. 
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Mas

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Re: Another which ISP thread
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2016, 10:50:02 AM »

A lot of my clients all use Zen and we find them to be great, no problems with their customer service either, techy guys seem to know their stuff when we had problems with a Draytek.
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gt94sss2

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Re: Another which ISP thread
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2016, 03:08:28 PM »

Caller display is a BIG rip off by the SPs, most of them charging anything from 99p to 2 per month for this feature. :rant:

The SP's are charged a paltry 0.45p per annum by Openreach to add this feature.   
That is one hell of a markup for something that requires absolutely no additional workload for the SP once it is set up.  They have to do nada.

Interestingly, Ofcom have announced a review of their General Conditions today. This includes proposed changes to CLI including in this document including:

Quote
C7.5 Regulated Providers must not charge Subscribers any additional or separate fee for access to or use of standard Calling Line Identification Facilities.
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kitz

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Re: Another which ISP thread
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2016, 03:50:06 PM »

Very interesting.  Good spot.   and YAY :)

However the cynical side of me see's the retailers find some other way to disguise it by say adding 1 pm to all customers bills  ::)
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