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Author Topic: Battery contact - copper line test fails, passes, fails, on two lines. (Again.)  (Read 5254 times)

Weaver

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I have two lines that are failing, then passing, then failing again on the BT remote "copper line test" that I can initiate using Andrews and Arnold's clueless.aa.net.uk control panel server. This all started at the beginning of this year and has come back again a couple of months ago. It just isn't going away. The only symptoms are tiny bursts of "dripping blood" visible in the CQM graphs - loss of PPP LCP pings sent every couple of seconds to test the line. Otherwise the speeds are holding up well and nothing is going obviously wrong at the DSL level. However, if I ignore it, I suspect that I'm going to be in trouble at some point when it completely breaks, Sod's law at xmas when you can't get hold of anyone to fix it. Or else some of my neighbours, who are completely unaware, are going to end up in trouble.

I suspect that BT never followed up and replaced the length of cable that they were supposed to.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 09:40:41 AM by Weaver »
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Black Sheep

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Known as a 'Tapping battery' condition .............. the problem with remote testing is it is a one-shot event, ie: it takes the readings at the second in time. The very next second, the battery contact may appear again !!

Couple of points, I wouldn't be overly worried that your circuit will fail before Xmas ........ if it was a large battery contact it would affect your circuit in the here and now, so it must be a very small contact fault.
Also, I don't know where you get the notion no-one is about at Xmas ??. We are allowed 1 day off (as well as the 3 BH's). The order books are closed completely*, so faulting is all we do, hence it should be easier to have us attend site ??

* This has always been the case in years gone by, whether that changes this year is above my pay-grade.
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Weaver

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No, my friend. I meant that no one at Andrews and Arnold is around, Sod's law.  ;D
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Weaver

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Met BT engineer Aonghus at the house this morning, plus one of his colleagues, two vans. They were off out on to the lower fields to have a look at the previous trouble site after I told them that might be a worthwhile place to take a look at first. Very quick to come out, care level 2.5. They only had one phone number - the enhanced care line - so I gave them the number of the other faulty line rather than gave them come out all over again to do yet another line. Showing as rectified now as well, he said.
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Weaver

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Looks like one line is sorted, line 3
==
Quote
Friday 14:43:14    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Informational Message: 4160 Fault closed after confirmation   bt
Friday 14:43:14    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
Friday 14:43:14    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Clear: 82.2 In Joint AreaCable (Underground)   bt
Friday 14:43:14    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Status: Closed - Cleared   bt
Friday 14:42:53    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Informational Message: 4069 Trouble Report Clear Confirm Accepted.   bt
Friday 14:42:53    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Status: Open - Cleared   bt
Friday 13:49:49    Note 01/12/2016 17:12:00 - Angus Macdonald
===
=== Point Of Intervention notes
=== At this point... Plant details... - Plant affected: JNT50 - Plant type: UCJ Multiple Intervention?: N
=== Point Of Intervention notes ends
=== Hard fault found in network, no PQT or eclipse, hard earth fault proven in length, clear whilst whilst cutting into cable, new joint made in dig, JB26 required and will return to fit.   andy@a
Friday 09:05:02   Friday 12:05:02   Management review PSTN fault 5-7-119119445317 needs a review   shaun@a
1 Dec 14:05:02   Friday 08:46:15   Management review PSTN fault 5-7-119119445317 needs a review   Shaun@a
1 Dec 17:23:33    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Informational Message: 4150 Response Required - Fault Report Cleared   bt
1 Dec 17:23:33    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
1 Dec 17:23:33    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Clear: 82.2 In Joint AreaCable (Underground)   bt
1 Dec 17:23:33    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Status: Open - Clear Unconfirmed   bt
1 Dec 17:23:29    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Notes Field: 01/12/2016 17:12:00 - Angus Macdonald
===Point Of Intervention notes===
At this point...
Plant details...
- Plant affected: JNT50
- Plant type: UCJ
Multiple Intervention?: N
===Point Of Intervention notes ends===
Hard fault found in network, no PQT or eclipse, hard earth fault proven in length, clear whilst whilst cutting into cable, new joint made in dig, JB26 required and will return to fit.   bt
1 Dec 17:23:29    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Informational Message: 4465 Please refer to the Notes field for the actual message   bt
1 Dec 17:23:29    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Status: Open - In Progress   bt
1 Dec 09:30:38    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
1 Dec 09:30:38    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Status: Open - Past PONR   bt
1 Dec 00:43:57   1 Dec 00:44:11   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Fault already reported to OpenReach. :   cwcc@a
30 Nov 13:06:21   Track fault and update customer PSTN Fault - NDT   andy@a
30 Nov 13:06:21   Wait for supplier to confirm fault cleared PSTN Fault - NDT   andy@a
Waiting on faultbtconfirm   Wait customer confirms fault closed PSTN Fault - NDT   andy@a
29 Nov 13:08:23    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Notes Field: **Line Stability:**Network Stability:**Test Outcome:Fail**MFL:LN**Term Statement:LINE TERMINATION DETECTED**Line Signature:**Distance to Fault:**Cable length:8.02**Test Start Time:2016-11-29T13:07:20**Test Stop Time:2016-11-29T13:08:14   bt
29 Nov 13:08:23    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Informational Message: 4465 Please refer to the Notes field for the actual message   bt
29 Nov 13:08:23    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Status: Open - In Progress   bt
29 Nov 13:06:47    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Informational Message: 4040 Notification only - Estimated Response Time.   bt
29 Nov 13:06:47    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Informational Message: 3100 Trouble Report Accepted   bt
29 Nov 13:06:47    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
29 Nov 13:06:47    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Status: Open - New   bt
29 Nov 13:06:29    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Message Informational 9323 The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level.   bt
29 Nov 13:06:29    Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119445317 Message Informational 3241 Notification Only - Trouble Report Creation Request is Pending   bt
29 Nov 13:05:50    WLR3Test NDT dys00556app04:328200341: Fail FAULT - Battery Contact ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:LN, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   andy@a
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Weaver

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So a JB26 is required?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2016, 10:23:17 AM by Weaver »
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Weaver

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Not much luck with line 1, on the other hand. Don't understand what's going on between AA and BT.
Quote
Friday 13:10:31   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Informational Message: 3302 Fault is Cancelled and Closed: Timeout awaiting for CP's response   bt
Friday 13:10:31   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
Friday 13:10:31   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Status: Closed - Cancelled   bt
Friday 09:05:02   Friday 12:05:02   Management review PSTN fault 5-7-119119724314 needs a review   shaun@a
1 Dec 14:05:02   Friday 08:45:57   Management review PSTN fault 5-7-119119724314 needs a review   Shaun@a
1 Dec 13:10:11   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Informational Message: 3231 Notification Only - Fault has been awaiting for CP's response for 48 hours   bt
1 Dec 13:10:11   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
1 Dec 13:10:10   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
1 Dec 13:28:58   Management review PSTN fault 5-7-119119724314 needs a review   Shaun@a
1 Dec 10:17:05   Tx rate (adjusted) 2379415 to 2423074   -Auto-
1 Dec 02:01:16   BT Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass OK. Circuit In Sync
BRAS=2411kb/s FTR=1817kb/s MSR=2272kb/s ServOpt=1 I/L=I
A SERVICE OPTION CHANGE ORDER IS IN PROGRESS ON THIS LINE
Up Sync=537kb/s LoopLoss=41.7dB SNR=6.1dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down Sync=2734kb/s LoopLoss=64.9dB SNR=1.8dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=N/A Cells=0   cwcc@a
1 Dec 00:45:48   1 Dec 00:46:23   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Fault already reported to OpenReach. :   cwcc@a
29 Nov 13:08:12   30 Nov 13:08:12   Track fault and update customer PSTN Fault - NDT   andy@a
29 Nov 13:08:12   30 Nov 13:08:12   Wait for supplier to confirm fault cleared PSTN Fault - NDT   andy@a
Waiting on faultbtconfirm   Wait customer confirms fault closed PSTN Fault - NDT   andy@a
29 Nov 13:10:14   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Warning Message: 3306 The line has tested OK. If you wish to proceed further you need to book an appointment   bt
29 Nov 13:10:14   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
29 Nov 13:10:14   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
29 Nov 13:10:12   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Notes Field: **Line Stability:Stable**Network Stability:Stable**Test Outcome:Pass**MFL:OK**Term Statement:LINE TERMINATION DETECTED**Line Signature:**Distance to Fault:**Cable length:7.93**Test Start Time:2016-11-29T13:09:07**Test Stop Time:2016-11-29T13:10:02   bt
29 Nov 13:10:12   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Informational Message: 4465 Please refer to the Notes field for the actual message   bt
29 Nov 13:10:11   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Status: Open - In Progress   bt
29 Nov 13:10:09   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Informational Message: 4068 Notification only - Main fault location changed   bt
29 Nov 13:10:09   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
29 Nov 13:10:09   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Status: Open - Associating Info   bt
29 Nov 13:08:30   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Informational Message: 4040 Notification only - Estimated Response Time.   bt
29 Nov 13:08:30   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Informational Message: 3100 Trouble Report Accepted   bt
29 Nov 13:08:30   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Estimated Response Time: 2016-11-30T23:59:59   bt
29 Nov 13:08:30   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Status: Open - New   bt
29 Nov 13:08:19   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Message Informational 9323 The asset care level 2.5 will be applied rather than the specified service level.   bt
29 Nov 13:08:19   Track PSTN Fault 5-7-119119724314 Message Informational 3241 Notification Only - Trouble Report Creation Request is Pending   bt
29 Nov 13:07:49   WLR3Test NDT cbs00556dat01:45508114: Fail FAULT - Battery Contact ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:LN, FaultReportAdvised:Y, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:   andy@a
29 Nov 12:00:30   29 Nov 12:01:20   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Openreach network fault found.Pass Openreach network fault found. T004:FAULT - Battery Contact
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Weaver

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Line 1 failed again on this afternoon's copper line test, same T051 (iirc) battery contact fail message. So will keep on AA's case, perhaps asking the Rev what he thinks.
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Weaver

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AA came back to me. They are of the opinion that the AA copper line test failures on line 1 are a red herring, because full tests carried out by BT showed no fault, something that I didn't know about. This is surprising since line 3 had the same superficial symptoms and was indeed faulty. But I have to defer to their experience and just hope that the minor and sporadic packet loss that initially made me suspicious of these two lines does not re-occur.
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aesmith

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Interesting.   I heard from one of the OR guys that some tests use tighter tolerances from their tester than from the remote test (insulation resistance?), meaning for that parameter it could pass remote test but fail when the guy's on site.   I didn't realise it could be the other way round for other parameters.  Could still be Black Sheep's suggested "tapping contact".
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Weaver

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I'm assuming, don't know why, that AA meant more extensive tests when BT were on site, perhaps at the exchange, but I really don't know. They never mentioned anything about connecting actual physical test equipment to the line in question.
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Weaver

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Line 4 (the three lines are numbered xxxx@a.1 xxxx@a.3 and xxxx@a.4, for hysterical reasons) is now showing battery contact error on a copper line test as well. It came back with the same failure code on two successive tests, about twelve hours apart t something like that. Unfortunately the next day it passed the test when AA did a third one.

AA told me that BTOR would refuse to look into it unless either the failures were consistent or I reported audible noise on the phone line. I agreed I would listen to it, just in case, but I am doubtful. Means I will have to find a conventional old analog telephone.

So I have now been getting these copper line test errors on all three lines, with line 3 having supposedly been fixed by BT when they came out at the start of december.

Wonder why I have been getting these errors on all of the lines?
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