Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5

Author Topic: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?  (Read 3494 times)

aneesh99

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 42
Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« on: November 30, 2016, 06:21:14 PM »

I've been having a discussion with PN about our line.

The background to this is that our exchange was a hot VP. For whatever reason, no interleaving or G.INP would apply to our line so it tanked our speed instead. Engineer came on Sept 6th to confirm our line was fine but that the exchange was the cause. Line was reset on the 7th but the speed dropped again.

The profile was reset on the 25th after our line was migrated to a cooler vlan but before works were completed to expand the exchange (which was due on the 30th). There were still quite a few errors and speed fluctuation but nowhere near as bad - probably because interleaving.

It doesn't appear they ever reset our line after the work was completed because my profile has been the same since the 25th.

====================================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
                G.Vector:   Disable
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 17 hours: 25 minutes
====================================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.063 Mbps       66.996 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     19.999 Mbps       66.997 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       15.0 dB            7.7 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        6.9 dBm          13.0 dBm
           Receive Power:       -8.2 dBm          -3.5 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      51.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          17.2 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     23.828 Mbps       74.509 Mbps
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      U4      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):    5.1    21.5    32.4     N/A     N/A    12.0    27.6    42.1   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    5.1    20.8    31.8     N/A     N/A    13.3    27.4    42.1   
        SNR Margin(dB):    15.2    15.0    15.0     N/A     N/A    7.6    7.6    7.7   
         TX Power(dBm):   -3.2   -21.6    6.6     N/A     N/A    9.6    7.9    6.9   
====================================================================================

            VDSL Counters

           Downstream        Upstream
Since Link time = 25 min 21 sec
FEC:      3620290      516
CRC:      0      93
ES:      0      81
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 2 sec
FEC:      2715      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      10999      21
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 18 hours 18 min 2 sec
FEC:      3796872      518
CRC:      572      96
ES:      11      84
SES:      11      0
UAS:      192      181
LOS:      1      0
LOF:      8      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:      3808220      701
CRC:      0      134
ES:      0      113
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Total time = 1 days 18 hours 18 min 2 sec
FEC:      7982827      21878
CRC:      572      354
ES:      11      296
SES:      11      1
UAS:      225      214
LOS:      1      0
LOF:      8      0
LOM:      0      0
====================================================================================
The stats have looked like this since the 25th, with the only difference being that the CRC errors and errors seconds cleared up completely after the work on the 30th. The interleaving never backed off after the work. I've attached the GEA test in a PDF below.

PN has said that GEA is reporting a sync speed of 64.1 and therefore, my profile isn't banded. But my VGM8324 is showing 66.9? They're adamant that this shows the profile band isn't impacting speed.

Secondly I'm curious as to why my line wasn't reset after the work was done?
 
I'm not really too knowledgeable about the intricacies of FTTC, I'm just trying to get PN to reset our line to see what it can do! :) 

Edit: PN thread is here https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Could-my-speed-be-better/td-p/1388990
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 06:44:04 PM by aneesh99 »
Logged

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1392
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2016, 07:06:29 PM »

The background about the hot VLAN doesn't really fit with the current issue, in that the usage of the VLAN would have had absolutely no impact on the VDSL2 connection between your modem and the FTTC cabinet. It may have affected your download speeds, but would not have caused any of the error counts in the VDSL2 stats, nor would VLAN congestion issues have caused the DLM to do anything - the DLM would not be aware of it.

This is the second case I've seen where the test strangely reports a lower speed than the modem. Out of interest, can you show us your BT IP profile from the further diagnostics of the BT Speedtester (ignore all the text in red about rebooting things)? I'd like to see if the BT IP profile is 96.7% of 64.1 or 67.
Logged

aneesh99

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 42
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2016, 07:16:35 PM »

Attached below. Looks like 97%. (64.1x0.97=62.1)

That was the information provided to me by PN.

All I know if that I saw the CRC errors and errors seconds skyrocket, and they settled after the work that was done on the 30th.  :-\
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 07:19:23 PM by aneesh99 »
Logged

j0hn

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 994
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2016, 10:09:04 PM »

My opinion would be that you're definitely banded.
The SNRM of 7.7dB shows a little room for more sync, I'm sure someone else could give you a rough estimate.

No idea where Plusnet are coming from with regards to your current sync. It's definitely 66.9mb and not 64mb
Logged
BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin - minted on MDWS via DslStats

aneesh99

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 42
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2016, 12:15:40 PM »

There's something really weird going on with my line, for the past three days the DSL sync drops at 0030-0050am when no one is using it and reconnects immediately. There's nothing in the log apart from loss of sync and re-connection. I've looked at the historical stats, I did a firmware upgrade a few days ago. By these trends, it looks like there are a burst of errors overnight?

====================================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
                G.Vector:   Disable
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 11 hours: 38 minutes
====================================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.063 Mbps       66.996 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     19.999 Mbps       66.997 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       15.2 dB            7.6 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:        7.0 dBm          13.0 dBm
           Receive Power:       -8.2 dBm          -3.4 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      51.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          17.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     23.482 Mbps       74.490 Mbps
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      U4      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):    5.1    21.4    32.3     N/A     N/A    12.0    27.5    41.9   
Signal Attenuation(dB):    5.1    20.5    31.7     N/A     N/A    13.2    27.3    41.9   
        SNR Margin(dB):    15.2    15.1    15.2     N/A     N/A    7.8    7.8    7.4   
         TX Power(dBm):   -3.2   -21.8    6.6     N/A     N/A    9.6    7.9    6.9   
====================================================================================

            VDSL Counters

           Downstream        Upstream
Since Link time = 38 min 59 sec
FEC:      1077157      172
CRC:      0      36
ES:      0      36
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 45 sec
FEC:      39980      2
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      66207      7
CRC:      0      1
ES:      0      1
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 12 hours 11 min 45 sec
FEC:      1096361      174
CRC:      538      37
ES:      10      37
SES:      10      0
UAS:      213      203
LOS:      1      0
LOF:      7      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:      3951737      514
CRC:      0      100
ES:      0      79
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Total time = 1 days 12 hours 11 min 45 sec
FEC:      14647895      22709
CRC:      1110      516
ES:      21      435
SES:      21      1
UAS:      438      417
LOS:      2      0
LOF:      15      0
LOM:      0      0
====================================================================================
Logged

Sheepie

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2016, 01:49:46 PM »

Has G.INP been activated on your line yet aneesh99??

I had DLM reset 12 days ago and I'm still waiting for G.INP to be re-enabled, instead it's applying a ton of interleave :(
Logged

aneesh99

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 42
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2016, 04:02:30 PM »

Nope, my profile is stuck as is after it was. Line was never reset after the issue was fixed, DLM never did anything to my profile. The only thing that changed was that CRC errors and the error seconds have gone  :'(

I'm hoping form some advice from y'all experts! I'm having a back and forth with PN about my profile being stuck and there are a few things going on.

The low estimate for my line is 63.8 and no one can seem to agree what constitutes low speed. The profile is banded at 67mbps, GEA and my modem are reporting the line rate at 67. The GEA 'download speed' (which PN is saying is the line rate???) is 64.1 and the BTw IP profile is 62.1. All of my real world speedtests are around 60-62mbps.

Kindly ejs has been posting very regularly but me, ejs and a few others that are disputing what PN is saying doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I'm hoping that a few more of you guys and gals could take a look at the thread and see that you think? I was thinking of cutting my loses after arguing on the forum for 3 weeks and reporting a fault but I'd rather be armed with all of the information I can gather before doing that.


Thanks!

https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Could-my-speed-be-better/td-p/1388990
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 04:06:22 PM by aneesh99 »
Logged

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 19881
  • Over the Rainbow
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2016, 04:59:19 PM »

I have looked and was rapidly reduced to a state of  :wall:

Quite honestly, you need to raise this matter with entities "higher up the food chain" and "Anoush" needs to be sent on a training course before being allowed to respond to any further customer queries/complaints.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 19881
  • Over the Rainbow
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2016, 05:16:14 PM »

Suggestion . . .

Take a look at the Member's List for this forum. Then sort the list by the Position column. Scroll down until you reach the those members classified as ISP Rep. (When I last checked, there were 28 names.)

Go through each of those names and identify the relevant members from Plusnet. Send a clearly worded PM to the right person and, in due course, this problem should be brought to a satisfactory conclusion.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

aneesh99

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 42
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2016, 05:17:20 PM »

Thanks for that!  :D

Another questions (and bear in mind I am a total layman) - my understanding was the actual line rate was my sync to the DSLAM, and my max attainable rate is based on SNRM and bit loading. Because apparently according to Anoush:

'My faults colleague has explained that the line rate is basically a speed profile. It's not the sync.'

Either I've been wrong for years when I've been asking for resync's with PN on ADSL or Anoush has no idea what he's on about?
Logged

burakkucat

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 19881
  • Over the Rainbow
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2016, 05:23:19 PM »

Because apparently according to Anoush:

'My faults colleague has explained that the line rate is basically a speed profile. It's not the sync.'

<snip> or Anoush has no idea what he's on about?

I really cannot comment, other than to recommend that you note the wise words from ejs in your Plusnet forum thread.  :-X
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 1392
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2016, 07:03:41 PM »

I've finally found the other thread in which someone had the GEA FTTC test report a different speed (and hence had a lower than expected BT IP Profile, because it was 96.7% of what the test said the speed was). Probably also banded.
https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Line-Rate-and-Profile-Difference/m-p/1383224

It does not give any insight as to why the test reports a different speed to the modem.
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 30247
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2016, 09:32:25 PM »

Suggestion . . .

Take a look at the Member's List for this forum. Then sort the list by the Position column. Scroll down until you reach the those members classified as ISP Rep. (When I last checked, there were 28 names.)

Go through each of those names and identify the relevant members from Plusnet. Send a clearly worded PM to the right person and, in due course, this problem should be brought to a satisfactory conclusion.

Just thought, that although (most) some of them still work at Plusnet, not all are still in CS.
I think James and Linn have moved on elsewhere so I will delete their tags.
Normally Bob/One of the Chris's are likely your best bet.   However that said I was speaking to Bob about something else this morning.... and whilst technically hes not CS either, he's now off work until after Christmas hols.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 30247
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2016, 09:47:30 PM »

Quote
It does not give any insight as to why the test reports a different speed to the modem.

There are instances whereby if the line does a really quick resync then the RAP part of RAMBO does not always detect the resync.  The RAP is separate to DLM and is responsible for informing the bRAS of changes in sync speed so that IPprofiles are adjusted accordingly.  It's also the figures that are often used in any reports that may be sent to the ISP or even Openreach engineers.   

I've seen this type of weirdness happen first hand on my line on a few occasions.  Plusnet have different info that what Im syncing at.   
Its even happened once when I had a HR fault whereby if the phone rang it would knock out the line.  On those occasions the resyncs were picked up by the DLM, yet they weren't visible to the ISP nor the OR engineer who was here to find the fault.

I think there is some recommendation about time between resyncs for RAP (bRAS) detection - its something like 40 seconds... cant recall off the top of my head. 
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 30247
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: Am I stuck on a banded/high retransmission profile?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2016, 10:03:43 PM »

Here we go - from the PN forum
Quote from: Anouch
As for the line not appearing to be reset following the resolution of the fault, I can see that your fault was fixed remotely by our suppliers capacity management team as the issue was overutilisation across the VLANs. An engineer wasn't arranged.

The line has had a remote reset, which as Ive been saying for months, remote/automated resets do not appear to remove banding.

No one else (ISPs) seem to be aware of this, yet its something that I first spotted several months ago, and why I started ruminating about the two different types of DLM reset.   This goes back to the days of WilliamG's 'line fault'.  I started to collect some stats and had a whole thread on the topic, but it was before I got ill and wasnt around for a while... thus forgot and not had chance to do anything further. :/
 
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5