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Author Topic: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion  (Read 1482 times)

NewtronStar

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Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« on: October 09, 2016, 08:20:21 PM »

Some of my neighbours may possibly think they have no choice but to deal with BT Retail.

I am afraid I can't get your favorite ISP on my circuit so just because others can get it does mean most of us can there are three types of exchanges for ISP's BTw & LLU and the BTw only which is my type of exchange and have no choice other than to use BT retail.



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Admin -  Split from thread here to continue discussion.
This was the most logical place to split.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2016, 01:00:59 AM by kitz »
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NEXUS2345

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2016, 08:38:48 PM »

If you are BTw only you can use many ISPs other than BT Retail. To list a few: Zen, Uno, Origin, A&A, Sky (connect service), Plusnet.
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NewtronStar

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2016, 08:54:46 PM »

Only if the ISP provide a BTw /retail service see below for ISP services at my exchange

and response from Andews & Arnold ISP

TT availability checker response
ADSL Services
Sorry TT back-haul ADSL is not available.

Ethernet/fibre
Ethernet services are also available, click here to check prices and availability.

TalkTalk EAD and Internet access 40Mb/s
Install subject to survey and may have excess construction charges which will be quoted before continuing with order

Install
£2850.00
£2375.00   Monthly
£1167.86
£973.22



« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 09:06:14 PM by NewtronStar »
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gt94sss2

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2016, 09:15:21 PM »

Can I ask what exchange you are on?


Most ISPs offer a service over BTW - including as has been said Zen, Uno, Origin, A&A and Plusnet etc - you are not just limited to BT Retail at any exchange in the UK even if your exchange doesn't have LLU.


There are some ISPs which offer both services over LLU and BTW and in those cases the LLU products won't be available to you but the BTW based ones will.
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NewtronStar

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2016, 09:20:20 PM »

Check out NIHB and yes I can get EE Plusnet and BT and a few others but that's about it
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kitz

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2016, 10:15:14 PM »

As gt94 said.... AAISP should still be able to supply.
That info you have been given above is for TT backhaul - you do not want EAD (ethernet on demand). TT wont be interested as they cant take your phone line.

AAISP can still provision you using the BTw backhaul.  - In fact iirc your FTTC headend exchange is at Bangor.


See below (info for a shop local to you)
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NewtronStar

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2016, 10:41:31 PM »

I did check a few ISP sites with phone number  >:( I am going to be bombarded with calls tomorrow from the sales department.

Origin is ok £21.58 per month
for the first 6 months, £31.58 thereafter the same as EE
Including Broadband & Line Rental

Sky is a No and Zen is OK but very expensive £43.99* per month including line rental and alos remember to take into account the small print of migration charge it's £49 to move from EE to BT
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Weaver

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2016, 01:27:15 AM »

I use AA over BTW, there is no TT LLU around here at all. In fact there’s no LLU of any sort at any of the local exchanges as far as I’m aware, although I haven't rechecked recently.

AA use both BTW and TT LLU on some of the deals they offer. Their 1TB deals are contingent on TTB backhaul being available though because they've done a bulk purchasing buy with TT I think. In the past they have encouraged customers to use a bonded mixture of BTW and TT LLU lines at the one site because of enhanced reliability.

Some customers prefer TT LLU because of the lack of stupid DLM.

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Chrysalis

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2016, 02:30:46 PM »

I think aaisp will never be able to do the 1TB deal on BTw given TT backhaul is almost 1/3 of the cost per mbit.
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Weaver

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2016, 05:52:54 PM »

Luckily for me, they don't charge more to users like me who are on a BTW exchange. For users such as me who buy a variable number of download ‘units’ each month, which is their old traditional tariff, they used to charge twice as much per byte for daytime peak office hours downloads on 20CN compared with 21CN or TT (and I was 20CN last year). Outside of peak hours, on the traditional tariff the download bytes/£ rate is vastly cheaper and is independent of the kind of line or exchange.

The traditional units-based tariff, which I prefer, is quite different from the more recent Home::1, Office::1x, Home::1TB etc deals (anything with a "::" in the title) where you have to pre-purchase a large per-month minimum download allowance, there's no time-of-day related charging and you can't buy only a small amount. On the double-colon deals, if you go over your download quota it either eats up some of next month’s quota, or you can buy a large top-up extra lump, or it slows down for the rest of the month - you have a choice depending on which deal you pick. It gets quite confusing because they give you a lot of choice. They sell Ethernet services as well as IP and that's probably something different again in terms of charging model for all I know.

One of the things that attracted me to AA even though I was also using Zen (at a different site) was the fact that I could get a fat block of global static IPv4 addresses, as much as I wanted, plus extra individual IPv4s as needed, all at no cost. (And a static IPv6 /48 plus extras as much as I want.) When I was a Demon user originally I had just 1 static IPv4, then I changed deal to get a decent-sized IPv4 block. When I signed up with Zen as a trial they only offered me a measly static IPv4 /29, and as for IPv6 they just kept coming out with excuses about why they hadn't implemented IPv6 support year after year. Zen was in the end simply ruled out as no native link bonding, no IPv6 and no fat IPv4 block in the deals I had seen, all of which were must-haves.

There were other things I liked about AA (too many to bore you with) at the time, and I discovered more good things later. Their attitude, “no bull” policy, transparent about everything, no corporate ‘wall’ to hide behind, non-glossy, no marketing / farketing-speak where everything is vague or misleading. You know the people, actual humans not a corporate black box. They're presumably still tiny, even compared with say Zen. And another thing dear to my heart is the fact that the company is run by an ultra-techie, not a management suit-type, an extremely serious hardcore professional software designer (and a gamer), who writes code all the time.

I loathe the phone, so I like the fact that you can talk to a particular known human with a name via every kind of electronic means conceivable: IRC and web chat, SMS, email, even twitter. Being able to talk to other users on IRC is extremely helpful because they really know their stuff.

One last thing, which I only discovered later. This post is way too long anyway, but it's more about my priorities and AA's website is a bit of a warren, I find. Originally I was going to use a big fat Juniper modem/router/firewall that I had got off eBay, which had two DSL modem cards in it. But I just couldn't work out how to configure it properly, or it was a duff eBay purchase, not sure which. Anyway I bought a Firebrick router instead which was beautiful. AA collaborate with WatchFront in a joint venture in the design and evolution of the various Firebrick models’ o/s, and the boss of AA, RevK, is always working on core Firebrick code as the o/s gets continual development. I love the fact that I can get router support and handholding straight from the horse’s mouth, from the actual developers not through umpteen layers of customer-prevention minions. And it's free. It's also a one-stop-shop for problems. Whatever might be wrong, it's always AA where the buck stops, be it a router bug (of course I myself could have cocked up the router or firewall config, so my badness) or a modem problem, or a line fault or network fault, whatever, it's all down to AA alone to sort it, I'm never stuck in between two organisations. And there's none of this PSTN-fault vs DSL-fault nonsense either, as I don't pay line rental to anyone else, so there's no faffing about with deciding what category a fault falls into. (I don't have POTS service, no SSFPs or micro-filters and no extensions, nothing that might have even the tiniest chance of degrading DSL performance.)
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gt94sss2

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2016, 11:43:54 PM »

I did check a few ISP sites with phone number  >:( I am going to be bombarded with calls tomorrow from the sales department.

Origin is ok £21.58 per month
for the first 6 months, £31.58 thereafter the same as EE
Including Broadband & Line Rental

Sky is a No and Zen is OK but very expensive £43.99* per month including line rental and alos remember to take into account the small print of migration charge it's £49 to move from EE to BT


The last few posts have gone some way from keyap's original post and the promise of follow-ups so a moderator may want to separate them..


I was going to say your problem was that you were on a 20CN exchange but note you already have BT Infinity which means your line is connected to 21CN at your fibre headend exchange. For fibre connections you don't need LLU at your exchange to get a LLU Fibre connection.


All Sky, Vodafone, TalkTalk need to do is connect to the headend exchange to their network which they will almost certainly have done as traffic for many different 'traditional' exchanges goes to one 'headend' exchange making it viable for them to do so, when it wouldn't have been viable to do it only for your exchange.
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kitz

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2016, 01:02:44 AM »

Quote
The last few posts have gone some way from keyap's original post and the promise of follow-ups so a moderator may want to separate them..

Was a bit difficult to decide where to split without trying to ruin the flow and cut off part topics.   Split at the most logical point and not necessarily where it went off topic.
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Weaver

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2016, 02:02:19 AM »

Mea culpa maxima. :-[ should have put my rant/psychoanalysis into a wholly more appropriate thread.
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burakkucat

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC) - Discussion
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2017, 12:12:26 AM »

That info you have been given above is for TT backhaul - you do not want EAD (ethernet on demand).

Just a quick comment, months later, for I have noticed a minor error . . .

EAD is Ethernet Access Direct.

Openreach sell EAD between two locations. It is up to the purchaser of the EAD service as to what Ethernet frames are sent between the two end locations.

So for what N*Star had quoted, TT would have purchased EAD from Openreach. One end would be at a convenient location to link to TT's backhaul, whilst the other end would be in N*Star's home.
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