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Author Topic: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)  (Read 9835 times)

Weaver

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2016, 01:05:28 AM »

I just don't understand why ISPs don't all offer everyone at least one static IPv4. They may or may not use ISP-side-NAT (in the sense that they give out only RFC 1918). (Don't some mobile networks give out RFC1918 addresses?) But whatever they do, they must have enough IPv4 addresses to cover all their lines because they can't assume that only a certain fraction are connected at any time, as with modern, post-dialup access networks users are typically connected 24/7. So why create unreliability by changing addresses on-the-fly?

Obviously, TCP will fail if either end changes IP address. If the local end TCP detects that its own address has changed then it needs to signal failure up to the application and dump the connection. (Because the remote end will be getting incomprehensible packets from a new unknown correspondent if TCP just tries ploughing on, and if it reconnects then there will be a failure of the delivery guarantee and that's something the app needs to know about.) If the remote end changes IP address and just ploughs on then the subsequent packets will be unrecognised and junked by firewalls or else will have to be junked by the receiving TCP anyway as they are not part of any known session. This will presumably mean that if the remote end doesn't simply fail, which it ought to, then the protocol will just retransmit until a count is exceeded. This could happen in the case of ISP-side NAT though.

This is how I wrote it when I was writing a transport layer at work many years ago. (After initially getting it wrong.)

Maybe ISPs just don't want the management hassle of accounting for IP addresses and just want it to be done automagically without integrating it into a customer database. On my ISP’s web server I can see what IP addresses I have got and can hand some back. I can remap some of my IP addresses to different lines. I can allocate some more IPv6 addresses (/64) too without asking a human. There is a one-off cost to writing this server-side management stuff and you have to have customer service staff who know what an IP address is.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 01:44:42 PM by Weaver »
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j0hn

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2016, 01:39:03 AM »

If you want (d) unlimited downloads, this will be either expensive or a slow service. If cheap unlimited internet were even possible (it isn't) then everyone would be doing it. They aren't, because it doesn't exist. Do you want a fast ISP or a cheap one?
Obviously everyones experience differs, but my experience couldn't be further from this. I'm probably with 1 of the cheapest ISP's (talktalk residential) and it's unlimited, no fup, no traffic shaping, and I can max out my 50mb connection 24/7. Its been a number of years since I've suffered from bad congestion and slow peak time speeds. The state of uk broadband has come a long way compared to early adslmax days. Different exchanges, ISP's, using different backhauls will vary in performance, but I very much have cheap, unlimited internet. The only downside is the customer service over the phone. The premium price of some ISP's is mainly for good customer service. A lot of them share the exact same services as other ISP's, at considerably different price points.
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Weaver

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2016, 02:43:04 AM »

@j0hn - that's the ‘monks’ exception. A good tip. If you are fortunate, don't tell anyone in case they join in too. :-) All ISPs have to buy capacity, be it transit or links from exchanges. If you don't have too many TT users on your LLU exchange then that's excellent and good for you. My cousins used be on PlusNet on an exchange that was heavily congested (don't know what they are doing now), and didn't even get half the miserable 4 Mbps maximum possible download rate. If you do speed tests and the results don't wilt according to time, then that's a good tip.

I think I was misusing the word unlimited. I meant that all the users are using the internet flat out, I'm not talking about the download restrictions placed on you as part of your particular deal. I meant ‘unlimited’ in the sense that it is not effectively speed-limited by congestion (not by individual line policy). I don't think this was a very helpful way for me to use the word.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2016, 02:46:28 AM by Weaver »
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Weaver

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2016, 02:55:02 AM »

And what's worse, looking back at that post, I was mixing up two different senses of the word ‘unlimited’ within the same paragraph. tip: I don't know what I'm on about.  :-[
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Chrysalis

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2016, 05:56:45 AM »

Weaver you have to remember these are commercial companies.

The 2 prime reasons would be efficient use of ip addresses, even in this "always on" era, there is still people who turn their devices off, and powered down devices in a dynamic ip pool do not use up valuable ip's.  Then there is the maintaining premium value of static ip's in particular discouraging business's to use residential packages, one such method is to only allocate dynamic ip addresses.

Interestingly even with ipv6 having massive amounts of ip addresses both BT and sky are only dynamically assigning prefixes (at least with sky tho it has a week expiry on the dhcp so is quite sticky).
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NEXUS2345

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2016, 12:00:33 PM »

Noting what Weaver has said about A&A, Uno also have the same policy in place. They are a member of the Open Rights Group, and perform no traffic shaping, stating that all their packages are served as is. They are also much cheaper than A&A, however their support and transparency is not as strong.
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keyap

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2016, 01:12:40 PM »

Wow, thanks for all the help. Only started the thread around 24hrs ago and already over a page worth of responses  :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

I think my brother's going to give Origin a try - I'm with them but it's too early to really comment or review. The only thing I can say is that my move from ADSL to fibre went without a problem, took 10 days and, although I had an problem with my master socket install (I'm guessing this is not Origin's fault?), after one call, they arranged for an engineer to recall, let me know what was going to happen and everything got fixed so they seem OK to present. It maybe a bit of a risk as I can't really find too much about them, but they do seem to meet my brother's requirements and cost isn't too bad either - time will tell. If anyone needs more info or feedback about them I'm happy to share.
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Oldjim

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2016, 02:57:17 PM »

Slightly off topic but I looked at UNO because of the positive comments here and a few things I am not sure about with respect to FTTC
Do they require you to take line rental with them and, if not, is there a discount if you do
Do they use LLU as indicated here http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2015/07/uk-isp-xilo-revives-broadband-service-under-uno-branding.html as the costs here https://www.uno.net.uk/price-list/ would tend to indicate otherwise
The reason for asking is that their costs for 40/10 FTTC are £22.49 which is only marginally higher than Plusnet 80/20 (I only get 47/10 so 40/10 is a viable comparison) and Plusnet support stinks at present - note that this is for the future as I am tied in to Plusnet until they increase their prices again
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Jim
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NEXUS2345

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2016, 03:52:28 PM »

Uno do not require you to take out line rental, nor is the broadband cheaper if you do. However, they do have cheaper line rental than some others.
LLU is used on their Fibre Pro and Fibre+ Pro packages, through the TalkTalk Business network, not Wholesale. It is also used on their Talk Surf packages, which as of present do not have a Fibre version, but that may be coming soon. This is an MPF solution, meaning your phone line and broadband are placed on the TTB network. The Talk Surf packages are significantly cheaper than their standard packages, so these are worth considering.
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kitzuser87430

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2016, 04:51:23 PM »

One thing to remember, that I think should be on the footer of every page, is all prices are excluding VAT
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Weaver

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2016, 04:55:55 PM »

Let us know how you get on. Tips from actual users are invaluable. (Can see user reviews on ispreview.co.uk of course.)
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Oldjim

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2016, 04:59:46 PM »

One thing to remember, that I think should be on the footer of every page, is all prices are excluding VAT
Indeed it should as it bounces up the costs by 20% so that the FTTC 40/10 cost increases to £27
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Jim
Plusnet

keyap

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2016, 12:06:19 PM »

Right, as promised, I'll keep this thread updated with the order progress etc. My bother's now decided he's going to go with Origin and will shortly be placing the order. I'm already with them so could comment on my experience but I'm going to hold of to see how his experience compares.

What he has already done is used their online chat a couple of time yesterday afternoon and also in the earlier hours of this morning. Both were responded to within 5 minutes and he got the answers to everything he needed. On the early hours session, he didn't quite know how to explain one of his questions and the guy at origin asked for his tel number and rang him to talk it through  :)

EDIT - quick update, just tried to get hold of them via live chat today to query something during the order and took nearly 1hr to respond  :-\. Again ,very informative but guess they have less staff on a Sunday
« Last Edit: October 09, 2016, 01:18:13 PM by keyap »
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NewtronStar

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2016, 05:14:03 PM »

Have started to look in the ISPreview site  http://www.ispreview.co.uk/review/top10.php
it's interesting how they gather up all this data, but at the end of the it all comes down to user affordability and what they want from an ISP and if your running a business from home.

Just because and ISP is not on a top ten list does not mean it's useless  :fingers:
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Weaver

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Re: Which ISP To Go For (FTTC)
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2016, 05:23:06 PM »

And some ISPs have to deal with difficult customers, or demanding setup at the home, variability of modems and routers, complaints about wifi and forty things. Whereas some ISPs have a ‘fanbase’.  ;D

ISPs can be hated or loved or something in between. Some of my neighbours may possibly think they have no choice but to deal with BT Retail.
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