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Author Topic: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?  (Read 3955 times)

Pockets

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Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« on: September 25, 2016, 11:03:45 PM »

I'm not on Fibre, and as far as I understand I connect to a regular PCP Cabinet.  (It doesn't resemble the FTTC Cabinets shown here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttc-cabinets.htm)

The Kitz guide explains that FTTC Cabinets divide into those with Lantiq and Broadcom Chipsets.  Does the same thing apply to PCP Cabinets?  I am asking to help decide on buying a new modem.

I tried looking up the cabinet as described here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/cabinet-lookup.htm but it is not mentioned, and I couldn't find the information by logging in to my modem either.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 12:16:09 AM by Pockets »
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Weaver

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2016, 11:08:44 PM »

I don't believe that it works like that, PCP is not the same things as an FTTC cab at all. As far as I am aware, and I'm sure I'll soon be corrected by knowledgeable souls if necessary, the relevant kit that you are talking to is the DSLAM (i.e. modem) in the exchange.

Kitz has said it doesn't really matter about synergy between the modem you own and the kit in the exchange. Good modems (or modem-routers) are just good, some do well on long lines.
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Pockets

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2016, 11:13:53 PM »

Ah that's helpful as I had read advice to the contrary.  I don't understand the issues - could you point me to something explaining why it doesn't matter what modem you own?
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Weaver

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2016, 11:25:53 PM »

That's just Kitz’ opinion, which I am quoting, would have to ask her. It may be that good modems have a full set of features, the standards constrain how they behave. Better modems may possibly have higher quality analog electronics in them - such as the analog input front-end being more costly or just plain better-designed - and they may have an absence of cost-cutting measures elsewhere in the electronic design. I suppose it is also possible for things to come out differently depending on design choices and how well they were tested under particular use-cases, for example on various types of bad or long lines. I'm just thinking about how things would turn out if I were designing a modem myself, so guesswork. (I used to be a software designer).

As one example, the modems I use currently don't match the chipset in the exchange, but they are very good on ADSL 2/2+ on an extremely long line.

That being said, I wouldn't be amazed if someone came out and said they have seen evidence for symbiosis between customer’s modem and DSLAM (exchange modem). In fact, iirc, there is a possible special feature 'Nitro' which gives faster (more efficient) transfer speeds but only if the kit at both ends of the line both come from one mfr. Not available on BT or LLU afaik, unfortunately.
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Weaver

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2016, 11:27:01 PM »

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burakkucat

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2016, 11:37:48 PM »

In my case, rather than attempt to match my modem/router's chipset with that of the exchange based MSAN (I have a MPF service, provisioned as G.992.5 (ADSL2+), by TalkTalk), I prefer to use a modem/router with a Broadcom chipset thus allowing me access to the full statistics for the circuit's operation.

Exchange MSAN, made by Huawei, using an Infineon chipset <----------> Modem/router, made by ZyXEL, using a Broadcom chipset.
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Pockets

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2016, 11:43:30 PM »

burakkucat, is that particular to a Broadcom chipset? Wouldn't a decent modem with a Lantiq chipset allow you to see the same statistics?
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Weaver

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2016, 11:47:25 PM »

Modems present varying amounts of statistics in totally non-standard ways. Certain apps for sucking stats out of modems only understand one modem manufacturer or so. So there's the question of whether a particular stats-gathering app that you fancy requires mfr x.
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Weaver

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2016, 11:54:43 PM »

I've chosen a modem on the basis of reliability and speed on a ridiculously long yet probably clean line. I've not managed to extract stats as doing so would be really messy and a security threat if I should make a mistake. (Off topic: It's awkward for me as I have three modems and a router configured not to allow access to the modems by devices on the main lan, but I have had many helpful suggestions as to the way to go.)

If you're modem shopping, ask people about experience with the same kind of line you have, signal quality, length, protocols etc.

In my case I have pushed very hard for ultimate speed with acceptable reliability on an ultra-long line (times three modems), and nothing else, and have not cared about manufacturer. I have done absolutely everything physically and electrically that I can think of (quite over the top) in keeping things clean to give any struggling modem the best chance to do well on an ultra-weak signal.

Ultimate speed is no use without reliability, for most applications anyway (especially as unreliability always reduces speed anyway, most-important reason being wasteful retransmissions).

In every case, over many years wherever I have read about a claimed really good modem, I have never seen any comments that the modem is good for some people’s situation and not others. Cutting corners to a ridiculous degree is rife in some electronics companies (from personal experience), but there are a few good guys out there still it seems.

Sometimes cheap kit can be really good, it's probably due to economics of suppliers’ chipset pricing too, where older less-fashionable but well-designed kit can hold its own but competition and marketing have made things cheaper. My modems are very cheap (<£20 each) but if there were anything in existence that was better then I would use it in a flash, cost no object.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 12:04:02 AM by Weaver »
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burakkucat

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2016, 11:56:27 PM »

burakkucat, is that particular to a Broadcom chipset?

No. All chipsets would have the ability to provide interesting data. It's as Weaver has explained . . . and the Broadcom chipsets have been the most well studied/understood.

Quote
Wouldn't a decent modem with a Lantiq chipset allow you to see the same statistics?

In theory, yes. But it really depends on the hardware manufacturer providing a means of access.
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Weaver

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2016, 12:10:25 AM »

Some chipset mfrs haven't provided software that exposes all of the useful stats you would like to see, and some present certain things in an unhelpful or confusing way or in lower accuracy, while other stats are not given at all. Things are just all over the place, no standardisation, in terms of what you see when you dig into a modem by logging into its software interface (e.g. using telnet) and manually entering commands to ask it to report stuff and then use human eyeballs to try and interpret what it reports. The terminology and units used, and the set of info reported, or not, is really variable.
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kitz

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 01:14:46 PM »

>>> Does the same thing apply to PCP Cabinets?

No.  In simplest layman terms the PCP cab is where wires join a larger trunk back to the exchange.  Theres's no hardware in them.

The fttc cabs have DSLAMs installed which in very simplistic terms does similar to what our modems do but on a grander scale.  It needs processing power, electricity and performs modulation for many lines.   

When we talk about the chipset -  again in simplistic terms - its like perhaps comparing the type of CPU in a PC.
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Weaver

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Re: Find out PCP Cabinet Chipset?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 02:35:08 PM »

To add to what Kitz said, modem (and modem/router) manufacturers typically get some software from a core chipset manufacturer and integrate it in as part of the whole software package they ship in ROM inside the device. So ‘chipset’ often effectively comes to mean that the characteristics of a particular mfrs’s software are always visible to the user who accesses the modem’s software.
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