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Author Topic: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016  (Read 6125 times)

kitz

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G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« on: September 02, 2016, 02:13:30 PM »

For those who have been following progress of Openreach's roll-out of G.INP on ECI cabinets, it would appear that Openreach and ECI have (finally) identified the cause of the problem and fixes are in development.

Quote
The fixes include the need for updated firmware for certain Modem Chipsets which impact both the Openreach Modem and the modem component of certain CP wires only Routers as well as software update for the ECI equipment.
 
This software will be tested by Openreach during Q3 (Oct-Dec) with deployment likely to commence, in consultation with the Service Provider community around April 2017

From an earlier update the symptoms were loss of PPP and intermittent sync problems.  We have long suspected that the problem was modem specific - those using BCM based modems appeared to show no symptoms and G.INP retransmission worked well for the the majority of lines we were able to monitor on MDWS.

Unfortunately line monitoring is severely restricted for ECI modems and the Homehub5A, but we had noticed that the Fritz!box 7490 was affected which supposedly contains a Lantiq VRX208 chipset to the ECI modem and HH5A which contain Lantiq VRX268 chipsets and were the main modems that had issues with G.INP on the Huawei cabinets. Some older Draytek modems (2850 and 2750) also had problems obtaining a connection on both Huawei and ECI cabinets.
 
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kitz

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2016, 02:14:16 PM »

Thanks and credit to skyeci for this update which will pressumably be the briefing issued to ISPs by Openreach on the 30/08/2016.

It's also ironic that one of our forum members ejs has always maintained that Lantiq based modems only appear to need a firmware update to be able to fully support G.INP.  TP-Link was sucessful in rolling out a prompt update for their TD-W9980 last year when the problem emerged with VRX chipsets on the Huawei cabinets last year.   
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2016, 03:49:24 PM »

Good info, Ta to both of you.

Progress on the ECI front prompts obvious questions about the old limitations we saw with the deployment on Huawei cabinets: does any of these "discovered" fixes allow upstream G.INP over on the Huawei portion.

I guess it isn't stated ... because I'm sure @kitz would have reported that ... but it does make you wonder!

The timing is largely as I suspected, but the note for April 2017 tells us something about how BT are treating their FTTC DSLAMs: That'll be the third year in a row where a major rollout has started at that time, with the deployment "window" clearly not going very far into the autumn. Very conservative over disruption in the winter months.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2016, 04:14:46 PM »

I dont have any more info as Ive not been in touch with anyone for a while.

ejs has long maintained that he could see no reason why firmware updates couldnt be made.  We know TP-link did it by working with Lantiq.   I can't see any reason why there would be a hardware limitation with the HH5A, and we know that hacked ECI modems with custom firmware appears to work well.

Upstream g.inp is a limitation of adsl2(+) but not with VDSL.  I'm still not wholly convinced that the ECI cabs are totally incapable of performing upstream g.inp, because the hard work for the cabs is on the downstream.   It appears that BT for some unbeknown reason appear to be (or at least in the past) have been averse to rolling out f/w for the lantiq based devices.    I see no reason why last year why BTr couldnt have rolled out something for the HH5A's.   Its all rather odd.
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ejs

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 04:52:13 PM »

There's OpenWRT/LEDE for the HH5A available now also.

Regarding the Lantiq CPE chips, the devices have two chips, the VRX268 / VRX288 is the main chip, plus the VRX208 which is described as the analogue front-end and line driver. The VRX208 chip will usually be found near to the RJ11 DSL socket, the VRX268 is the bigger chip in the middle, often under a heat sink.

The TP-Link 9980 firmware update didn't even need to update the Lantiq DSL firmware, all TP-Link needed to do was enable ReTX in the configuration!
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j0hn

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 06:26:43 PM »

so is there any way to see if the OpenReach ECI modems get a firmware update in the next few weeks/months? that will surely show progress happening. The HH5a I'd assume shows current firmware in the GUI somewhere so should be easier to monitor for changes.
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ejs

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2016, 06:46:19 PM »

Probably not, without opening the case and connecting some wires to the serial port terminals. Or connecting the Openreach ECI modem to your own DSLAM and looking at the reported version information.
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AngelRex

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2016, 12:33:44 PM »

So, as I understand it, the G.INP upstream was switched off for both cabinet types.  With the apparent 'fix' will the G.INP now be enabled on the upstream, assuming that part works?
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ejs

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2016, 04:25:39 PM »

ECI cabinets did not have G.INP on the upstream, and probably won't ever support it.

This latest issue was about problems encountered with ECI cabinets doing G.INP on the downstream only. The status of Huawei cabinets is unchanged.
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2016, 04:36:11 PM »

If they're doing firmware fixes to the ECI modems too, and running through whole new acceptance test cycles, then that might be enough to motivate them to fix the problems that the ECI modems had with G.INP upstream.

That, in turn, might allow them to make upstream G.INP more viable over on the Huawei cabinets.

If they did, I'd imagine they wouldn't alter the Huawei cabs (or make changes to DLM) until after the ECI cabinet upgrade has rolled out completely and successfully.
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Dray

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2016, 05:33:05 PM »

I don't believe the ECI cabs can support G.INP on the upstream
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AngelRex

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2016, 12:21:25 PM »

I don't believe the ECI cabs can support G.INP on the upstream

I was asking if this fix in g.inp would now enable the upsteam g.inp.

It was initially enabled on both upstream and downstream (see kits interview with BT) this was then pulled for both (on upstream)  I have a huawei cab and did have g.inp on the upstream (mk1 g.inp).  When they pulled it and did mk2 g.inp no upstream was there. 

This mainly effected my connection on the ping - i was getting 7-8ms with g.inp on both down and up for months, now on mk2 I get 18ms.  not a major issue but would be nice to have it back!
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Dray

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 03:21:05 PM »

If you have a Huawei cab (like me) why are you interested if G.INP upstream works on ECI (which I don't think will ever)?
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 03:28:26 PM »

The reason I mentioned it is because, quote, "The fixes include the need for updated firmware for certain Modem Chipsets which impact both the Openreach Modem and the modem component of certain CP wires only Routers".

If the modems that used to be incompatible with "upstream G.INP on a Huawei cabinet" all get fixed, there is no need to continue withholding upstream G.INP on those Huawei cabinets.

If upstream G.INP can be turned back on, in Huawei cabinets, all those users who have compatible modems/chipsets will gain too.

Ergo, people with neither ECI cabinet nor ECI modem have a vested interest.
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Dray

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 02/09/2016
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 03:38:59 PM »

It's not withheld, it's just not first choice. It only comes on if the upstream is full of errors.
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