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Author Topic: DLM is thick as two short planks  (Read 9683 times)

broadstairs

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DLM is thick as two short planks
« on: August 27, 2016, 07:57:31 AM »

This morning I had DLM intervene after some 25 days of very good running on fastpath and it slapped on interleaving. Yes I had a very large number of errors yesterday but all during the early hours of Friday morning all cause by a significant amount of thunderstorm activity for about 4 hours all over East Kent with 1000's of strikes/hour. I had expected DLM to ignore these errors as it has been said in the past that any thunderstorm activity is factored into it. Well it patently is NOT. This intervention was simply not necessary in any way.

Doing this just reinforces my view that the current DLM is not fit for purpose. My line is still banded and limited to 59995kbps as well downstream for no good reason as all the issues I had for a couple of months were on the upstream which is still running not interleaved at 20000kbps. Just more proof if it were needed that the current infrastructure is not fit for the 21st century.

Stuart
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NewtronStar

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2016, 02:07:47 PM »

Hmmm does that mean the wide area event monitoring has also been turned off that is not good at all  :o
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LordFox

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2016, 02:27:59 PM »

Funny you should mention that...

After my FTTC went live about six weeks ago, I've had very low error rates and an excellent connection. Last week, there was one sudden, very brief 'event' with the first SES that I've seen. I actually caused it, mucking about near the modem. It dropped my connection and I got interleaving when it reconnected.

I'm very unimpressed. I've been trying not to think about it...
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j0hn

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2016, 03:20:36 PM »

You can hardly compare the 2. DLM has no way of knowing that you were "mucking about near the modem". If your line was the only 1 to suffer the SES then DLM did exactly what it was supposed to by stepping in.

Broadstairs situation is very different though. It's highly unlikely that a thunderstorm caused errors on his line only. It's specifically designed to ignore "Wide area events" where a certain percentage of users on the DSLAM all suffer errors/resyncs in the same 15 minute bin. Any such pattern of errors should cause that 15 minute bin to be completely ignored.

You could put the argument DLM was possibly a bit quick to step in. I don't know how you expect it to know the difference between genuine errors due to line instability, and a user "mucking about". Chalk and cheese comes to mind.
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broadstairs

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2016, 03:22:06 PM »

Be interesting to know if anyone else on here near the storms on Friday early morning have had a similar issue the timing was from around 01:30 for about 4 or so hours and covered mots of Kent and probably some of Sussex and east Essex. You can see lightning maps from the archive at http://en.blitzortung.org/historical_maps.php?map=12. Just make sure you look at the 26th August from about 01:00 (they use UTC or GMT).

Also been quite a lot of storm activity recently in Dorset/Hampshire up to the Midlands and over into East Anglia, be good to know if anyone else with no previous issues sees a DLM hit.

Stuart
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roseway

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2016, 03:48:40 PM »

I'm between Ashford and Folkestone, and my ES rate increased by a factor of ~10 at that time but it didn't have any other untoward effects. We were on the edge of the thunderstorm area.
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  Eric

Chrysalis

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2016, 05:11:16 PM »

Well I am over 3k ES for today, so my line will be a test to see if wide area events are still taken into account on DLM.

Sods law the last 2 storms here have both been whilst I am streaming leics games meaning I couldnt go offline. I think the one before that was also during a game as well, so 3 storms in a row on Saturday afternoons.  The one today tho was more severe and longer lasting there was lots of brownouts as well.

Seems I am actually according to MDWS just below the speed error threshold, 2614.

From modem

Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 47 min 56 sec
FEC:            0               3741
CRC:            19629           174
ES:             2719            122
SES:            11              0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 05:18:09 PM by Chrysalis »
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broadstairs

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2016, 05:48:58 PM »

I could have turned my router off as at that time very little goes on, only my weather station updates. However I did not wake up  ;) My wife on the other had did and watched it but did not wake me up  ;D although in hind sight perhaps would have been better if she had  :(

Stuart
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Ronski

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2016, 06:19:52 PM »

I'm pretty sure my line hasn't resycned recently, and I'm the other side of Broadstairs. My works line has also been OK. Haven't looked at the error rates on either though.
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NewtronStar

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2016, 06:33:47 PM »

Looking at Chrysalis B0 CRC errors that is what a typical thunderstorm looks like and don't see this on Broadstairs B0 CRC graph just one big spike of 694.000 CRC during modem reboot time.

Edit I can see it now it's being dwarfed by that 694 thousand CRC error of MDWS  :o


 
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 07:37:49 PM by NewtronStar »
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broadstairs

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2016, 08:28:34 PM »

I had 1633 ES in 24 hours on Friday 26th August 2016, I think those CRCs at reboot time are a function of the reboot and this router, I often see a spike of CRCs at reboot time, not always but it does happen. For standard profile 1633 ES in 24 hours is 'action' however it should have seen the issue with the thunderstorm I would have hoped and ignored it, I just wonder if I was just enough under the centre of the storm that I go more hits than others.

If this is the case then I would submit that the algorithm is not good enough to detect storms especially at night when many routers may well be turned off. In which case I would suggest they invest in some real storm detection equipment to interface with the BT equipment and properly detect thunderstorms. I think the algorithm should also take account of the previous good days of running before it jumps to conclusions which cannot be substantiated by other means.

Stuart
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NewtronStar

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2016, 10:15:31 PM »

I just wonder if I was just enough under the centre of the storm that I go more hits than others.

As it says it's a wide area event T/Storms can start effecting users stats when the cell is even 25 miles from users home so that would effect hundreds of DSLAM cabinets which then sends the data back to central command and after 24 hours it then decides which cabinet & port number needs some DLM.
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forceware

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2016, 12:07:28 AM »

I'm sure I read somewhere that DLM gives 20% discount on es for wide area events. To way of thinking it should discard them all. I live in Kent near Ashford too. I got dlmed in the last lot of storms a couple of weeks ago. To fair DLM put me back on fast path after 7 days. I do have my line quite heavily capped. I managed to escape these storms as I think we were on the edge. I agree with Stuart, I find DLM to be really annoying . The "we know what's good for you son!" Attitude of openreach is unbelievable, I can't see why I can't specify how I want my line in the way of g.inp, interleaving or fastpath. I'm sure it's the cause of a lot of calls to ISP call centres too.
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sevenlayermuddle

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2016, 12:45:21 AM »

@Broadstairs, of interest, quite apart from DLM, and quite apart from speeds...

Is your line failing to provide any specific services (say, netflix video streaming) that it would provide better in the absence of this DLM intervention?
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j0hn

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Re: DLM is thick as two short planks
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2016, 03:05:45 AM »

I'm sure I read somewhere that DLM gives 20% discount on es for wide area events.
Check For Wide Area Events
There's no 20% discount on ES
If it still works as Kitz wrote before the ASSIA court case then to be ignored as a wide area event it would need;
1) 50% of users to be experiencing errors AND 10% of users experiencing a resync
or
2) 20% of users experiencing a resync
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