Kitz ADSL Broadband Information
adsl spacer  
Support this site
Home Broadband ISPs Tech Routers Wiki Forum
 
     
   Compare ISP   Rate your ISP
   Glossary   Glossary
 
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect  (Read 7860 times)

Mick

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« on: August 20, 2016, 03:50:02 PM »

I am really perplexed with my observations ...

A couple of weeks ago I got a HG612 3B to see if it will hold my ADSL2+ line any better than a 2WIRE 2700HGV I have been using for a long time.  I flashed the HG612 and used DSLstats to find out that it was able to connect at slightly higher speeds than the 2700HGV, but would also drop the line more frequently.

So, today I removed it and reconnected the 2700HGV.  I was surprised to see that it would not finish training, or obtain a DSL connection.  Looking at its admin GUI I found out that it was 'searching for DSL signal' but not finding any.  I went through a whole process of replacing the 2700HGV for another 2700HGV with older firmware, swapping PSUs, etc. but neither of the 2WIREs was able to get a DSL signal and establish a connection.

Putting back the HG612 3B I was able to get a connection straight away!

So. I am completely at loss why this is so.  Could connecting to the exchange with a flashed HG612 3B have cause a change of any settings at the exchange?  Why aren't the 2WIRE modems connect to the exchange as they were previously perfectly capable of doing?  Has anything changed BT-wise over the last couple of weeks?

I attach a screenshot of the 2WIRE settings.  All devices are used in bridged mode.

PS. This is not relevant to my problem, but I noticed on the HG612 sshd is running:
Code: [Select]
649 0           292 S   sshd -E but I am unable to connect to it ... any idea what it is used for?
Logged
Regards,
Mick

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2016, 07:03:31 PM »

It's been a long while since I last used a 2Wire device . . .

However I notice that your screenshot shows --

ATM Encapsulation:    Bridged LLC

Is there an option to set it to VC Mux:-\
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Mick

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2016, 07:34:43 PM »

Thank you burakkucat,

For more than a year since BT changed their kit at the exchange I had to run the 2WIRE with Bridged LLC, or I wouldn't connect with PPPoE to the ISP.  Have a look at this old post of mine with a link to BT's technical notice on this topic.  The HG612 has the same setting and connects fine.

I just can't understand how this is happening, when two weeks ago the 2WIRE could connect and hold the line better than the HG612.  I have now also replaced the telephone cable to the BT socket faceplate, and factory reset one of the 2WIREs, before then re-configured it in bridged mode.  I've run out of ideas for things to try.  BTW, the 2WIRE wouldn't achieve a DSL connection whether in bridged on non-bridged mode.  This is what it's been reporting:
Code: [Select]
DSL Synchronization: No DSL signal was found
G. DMT ATM Signal: No DSL signal was found

Has there been a change at BT's kit to only allow connections from more modern modems? (clutching at straws)
Logged
Regards,
Mick

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33879
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2016, 09:13:48 PM »

>> RAS RADIUS in Milton Keynes

Are you 21CN, if so then you may not longer have MK as your RAS.   BTw started rolling out MSE bRAS about a year or so ago.  However most exchanges were complete last year - unless your exchange has more recently gone 21CN. 
I doubt this is the cause though for within the past couple of weeks.
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker

NEXUS2345

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 235
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2016, 09:27:41 PM »

I know it may not help with Mick's issue, but I was just wondering if there are a list of exchanges which have moved ADSL products onto MSE bRAS? I recently rung Zen after I was suffering some contention issues and they informed me I was on the Sheffield 'interconnect' by which I can only assume they meant the old bRAS system. I am the Kiveton (SLKIV) exchange if that is of any help.
Logged
Security improvement and remediation consultant with infrastructure specialisation

IDNet Openreach FTTP 1000/115 + Asus RT-AX92U | Virgin Media 200 + SuperHub 3 + Synology MR2200ac mesh | Sky 80/20 with WiFi Guarantee on Huawei 288 cabinet

burakkucat

  • Respected
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 38300
  • Over the Rainbow Bridge
    • The ELRepo Project
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2016, 11:22:16 PM »

PS. This is not relevant to my problem, but I noticed on the HG612 sshd is running:
Code: [Select]
649 0           292 S   sshd -E but I am unable to connect to it ... any idea what it is used for?

It is just the ssh daemon process.

I suspect that you are unable to establish a ssh connection to the HG612 because you have not allowed such connections in the ACL.

Try going to Advanced --> Firewall --> ACL and adding a rule to allow a ssh connection from the LAN.
Logged
:cat:  100% Linux and, previously, Unix. Co-founder of the ELRepo Project.

Please consider making a donation to support the running of this site.

Mick

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2016, 11:34:57 PM »

>> RAS RADIUS in Milton Keynes

Are you 21CN, if so then you may not longer have MK as your RAS.

Yes, you're right, I noticed this is now reported on my ISP's control panel for my connection:

21CN-ACC-ALN20-2401-L-NWS

However, I haven't noticed when the switch from the MK BRAS happened.  Even if it happened in the last two weeks, would this be related to my trusted 2700HGV no longer being able to perform ATM encapsulation?
Logged
Regards,
Mick

Mick

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2016, 11:39:44 PM »

I suspect that you are unable to establish a ssh connection to the HG612 because you have not allowed such connections in the ACL.

Try going to Advanced --> Firewall --> ACL and adding a rule to allow a ssh connection from the LAN.

Thank you burakkucat, I'll try what you suggest because I can't connect with telnet from Linux/AppleMac, the login hangs once I enter username/passwd.  Only netcat works (on Linux).
Logged
Regards,
Mick

Mick

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2016, 11:23:25 AM »

This morning I had another go troubleshooting this problem.  I tried an old DG834v2 router with the DGTeam firmware.  In bridged mode.  It wouldn't connect.  Then burakkucat's observation made me think to change the ATM encapsulation.  I set it to VCMux and guess what?  It connected!

So, the previous change in BT's kit which required LLC to be able to use a modem plus router with PPPoE, seems to have been reversed?  o_O

With renewed enthusiasm I plugged in one of the 2WIREs changed the encapsulation to VCMux and for good measure rebooted it.  Still no connection.

This is what I have a the moment in terms of results:

MODEMLLCVCMUXRESULT
2WIREYesNoFAILS
2WIRENoYesFAILS
DG834v2YesNoFAILS
DG834v2NoYesCONNECTS
HG612YesNoCONNECTS
HG612NoYesCONNECTS

My (potentially incorrect) conclusions are:
  • BT's SIN 482v1p13.pdf no longer applies, now that MSE RAS are being deployed.
  • The HG612 must have some other feature, missing from the 2WIRE and missing from the Netgear, which allows it to connect to the exchange regardless of its ATM encapsulation, LLC or VCMux.
  • Unlike Netgear, the 2WIRE is also missing some feature, which allows Netgear to connect with VCMux

What do you make of all this?  What could be causing these differences between devices?  Is it time to put my 2WIREs on ebay?  :(
Logged
Regards,
Mick

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2078
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2016, 12:48:17 PM »

I think that if it doesn't find a DSL signal, then any PPP layer PPPoE LLC or PPPoA VCMUX settings are not relevant.

As you are ADSL2+, that's WBC, not IPStream Connect, so you're not looking at the applicable BT SIN document. But I think that doesn't matter. Even if the PPP layer settings were wrong, I'd still expect the DSL to complete training and enter showtime.

Could you post the full set of DSL stats from a connected HG612? I suppose it's plausible that the DSLAM is trying to use some INP level or interleaving/framing parameters that aren't supported by the 2WIRE, and the attempt to use them is confusing the 2WIRE so that the DSL fails to connect at all. The DG834v2 is pretty old, e.g. there's some tweak if you want to enable INP > 2 support, but it might not get confused and manages to negotiate some parameters that it does support.
Logged

Mick

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2016, 03:21:59 PM »

Thank you ejs,

A couple of days after I started using the HG612 I noticed a message in my ISP's control panel logs.  It said:
Code: [Select]
8 Aug 18:37:46 8 Aug 18:37:52 BT Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass OK. Circuit In Sync
BRAS=10031kb/s FTR=5913kb/s MSR=7392kb/s ServOpt=1 I/L=I
A SERVICE OPTION CHANGE ORDER IS IN PROGRESS ON THIS LINE
Up Sync=886kb/s LoopLoss=23.6dB SNR=15.5dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down Sync=10068kb/s LoopLoss=41.9dB SNR=6.1dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=N/A Cells=0

I hadn't triggered this test from the control panel, so I'm guessing the frequent line disconnections with the HG612 may have done it.  Interleaving has always been switched on for my line because of the distance from the exchange and cross talk I get from the near by village (I found this out during a power cut which only affected them).  The modem stats obtained since this morning, are as below:
Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 1013 Kbps, Downstream rate = 13708 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 1068 Kbps, Downstream rate = 12014 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+ Annex A
TPS-TC: ATM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 3.2 7.4
Attn(dB): 42.0 23.7
Pwr(dBm): 19.6 12.1
ADSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 63 12
B: 58 62
M: 4 1
T: 6 2
R: 12 10
S: 0.6243 1.8718
L: 3178 312
D: 2 16
Counters
Bearer 0
SF: 1149256 110295
SFErr: 3 0
RS: 118948028 1149675
RSCorr: 669 622
RSUnCorr: 11 0

ReXmt: 1814 0
ReXmtCorr: 1729 0
ReXmtUnCorr: 12 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 32 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 528150255 46961012
Data Cells: 424788 104599
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 666 0

ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 51 51
AS: 18636

Bearer 0
INP: 29.00 2.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 8 7
PER: 16.15 16.84
OR: 34.17 8.54
AgR: 11998.77 1072.85

Bitswap: 3953/3953 397/397

Total time = 5 hours 11 min 27 sec
FEC: 669 622
CRC: 3 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 51 51
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 27 sec
FEC: 31 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 13 104
CRC: 1 0
ES: 1 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 5 hours 11 min 27 sec
FEC: 669 622
CRC: 3 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 51 51
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 5 hours 10 min 35 sec
FEC: 669 622
CRC: 3 0
ES: 3 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0

I don't think I can tweak the interleaving at my end and in any case I wouldn't know what to set up without advice.  ;)
Logged
Regards,
Mick

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2078
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2016, 03:41:16 PM »

How very strange. Could you give us the output of xdslcmd info --vendor also please. INP of 29 is an enormous value, and I believe the ReXmt counts indicate Broadcom PhyR (not G.INP) is actually in use on the downstream, and I didn't think BT enabled that, most BT DSLAMs/MSANs aren't even Broadcom based.

I suspect then that the 2WIRE is getting confused by the apparently active PhyR, the old DG834v2 won't support PhyR either, but presumably manages to not get confused and negotiate a working connection.
Logged

Mick

  • Reg Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 292
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2016, 04:04:46 PM »

Here you go:
Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --vendor
xdslcmd info --vendor
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 1013 Kbps, Downstream rate = 13176 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 1068 Kbps, Downstream rate = 10322 Kbps

ChipSet Vendor Id: BDCM:0xa3a7
ChipSet VersionNumber: 0xa3a7
ChipSet SerialNumber:

As well as my modem settings:
Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd profile --show
xdslcmd profile --show

Modulations:
G.Dmt Enabled
G.lite Disabled
T1.413 Disabled
ADSL2 Enabled
AnnexL Disabled
ADSL2+ Enabled
AnnexM Disabled
VDSL2 Disabled
Phone line pair:
Inner pair
Capability:
bitswap On
sra On
trellis On
sesdrop Off
CoMinMgn Off
24k On
phyReXmt(Us/Ds) Off/On
TpsTc AvPvAa
monitorTone: On
dynamicD: On
dynamicF: Off
SOS: On
Training Margin(Q4 in dB): -1(DEFAULT)

Oops!  I just noticed I had a retrain (again).  :(
Logged
Regards,
Mick

ejs

  • Kitizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 2078
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2016, 04:20:55 PM »

I noticed BT installed equipment that gave a Broadcom vendor code in the more recently (2015) upgraded to ADSL2+ exchanges, but Kiveton (SLKIV) was listed as having WBC ADSL2+ in the August 2014 list and also in another spreadsheet from January 2014. Of course BT may have installed another MSAN or new line cards at any time.

Presuming the PhyR enabling process works in a similar way to G.INP with the FTTC DLM, I suppose what you could do is disable PhyR on the HG612, note any differences in the stats, and leave it connected like that for a few days. After that time, hopefully the DLM will have noticed you are using a modem which doesn't support PhyR, and then it will stop trying to use PhyR on your line, and then the 2WIRE will be able to connect again. That's assuming the DLM has deliberately activated PhyR for your line, rather than it's been left enabled accidentally or is being tested or something like that.

Or just keep using the HG612 with PhyR, it should be making things much better than what interleaving can do.
Logged

kitz

  • Administrator
  • Senior Kitizen
  • *
  • Posts: 33879
  • Trinity: Most guys do.
    • http://www.kitz.co.uk
Re: 2WIRE 2700HGV after Huawei HG612 3B won't connect
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2016, 04:22:00 PM »

Quote
I suppose it's plausible that the DSLAM is trying to use some INP level or interleaving/framing parameters that aren't supported by the 2WIRE, and the attempt to use them is confusing the 2WIRE so that the DSL fails to connect at all.

Actually you may be on to something there.

The 2 wire is very old and doesnt support some of the newer technologies.  It was useless for me on Be about 8yrs ago as it couldnt support annex-m.
20CN DLM doesnt use INP. 21CN does.

Last supplied stats show DLM profile with INP although 29 is very high.   Should be about 3/4 unless you have G.INP.

Quote
8 Aug 18:37:46
A SERVICE OPTION CHANGE ORDER IS IN PROGRESS ON THIS LINE

This isnt anything you could have started.  Service option change could imply IPSC (IPstream connect) to WBC/WBMC.
Its to the ISPs advantage to move as many accounts over to WBC (21CN) from IPSC as soon as they can.

Moving from IPSC to WBC doesnt happen at the same time as the 21CN upgrade, the ISP decides when to do that. 


Quote
I know it may not help with Mick's issue, but I was just wondering if there are a list of exchanges which have moved ADSL products onto MSE bRAS? I recently rung Zen after I was suffering some contention issues and they informed me I was on the Sheffield 'interconnect' by which I can only assume they meant the old bRAS system. I am the Kiveton (SLKIV) exchange if that is of any help.

Thinking about it.. although MSE bRAS started well over a year ago, FTTC was the first to start to use it.  I may be imagining it, * but now you mention it, something rings a bell that ADSL would be done afterwards.   

However..  being on 21CN doesnt necessarily mean MSE bRAS, as 21CN was around first and the upgrades are separate.
"Sheffield interconnect" is more likely to imply 21CN, although saying that IPSC will also aggregate at the interconnects.   20CN still uses the old bRAS system for authentication.  Its only 21CN that is being upgraded to MSE bRAS.


-----
ETA was looking for something about MSE bras, and whilst I was I note ejs has also commented about the high INP value.
Warning - while you were reading 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post....  but here you go.

*No Im not imagining
"Users on FMSANs (Fibre) will be the first to be migrated to the new system. "
Logged
Please do not PM me with queries for broadband help as I may not be able to respond.
-----
How to get your router line stats :: ADSL Exchange Checker
Pages: [1] 2 3
 

anything