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Author Topic: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis  (Read 11724 times)

ejs

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2016, 07:29:39 AM »

The lines that had no significant improvement - they might be using equipment that doesn't support vectoring.
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burakkucat

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2016, 06:02:18 PM »

The lines that had no significant improvement - they might be using equipment that doesn't support vectoring.

Yes, agreed, that could possibly be a reason.
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ejs

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2016, 06:32:55 PM »

The gains in LR-VDSL2* come from 3 sources, making it hard to quantify the outcome:
- Vectoring can give a big gain, but only if the line already suffered from crosstalk. No disturber => no gain.
- Removal of CAL could give a gain of up to 8Mbps for cabs that are ~2km from the exchange, but little gain for those outside the exchange or 5km away. But almost every line on the cab ought to be able to gain the same amount from this.
- The increase in total aggregate power probably helps lines with access to more tones. i.e shorter lines

I think there's another source for gains. For the LR-VDSL2 lines, they haven't only set CAL=0, they have removed the PSD mask from the ANFP entirely. For CAL=0, the ANFP PSD sets a maximum downstream limit of -49.5 dBm/Hz, but without the ANFP limits, it's -36.5 dBm/Hz.

Essentially, for the LR-VDSL2 lines, they've also increased the maximum power that can be transmitted on an individual downstream tone. In particular, this applies to the below 1.1 MHz tones (the ADSL downstream range).
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WWWombat

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2016, 11:40:31 AM »

I think there's another source for gains. For the LR-VDSL2 lines, they haven't only set CAL=0, they have removed the PSD mask from the ANFP entirely. For CAL=0, the ANFP PSD sets a maximum downstream limit of -49.5 dBm/Hz, but without the ANFP limits, it's -36.5 dBm/Hz.

Really? I hadn't cottoned on to that change anywhere ... but re-reading the STIN rather more carefully, I see you could be right. Hidden in half a sentence!

More investigation needed...
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Weaver

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2016, 05:25:31 PM »

Apol, what is CAL?
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burakkucat

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2016, 05:36:06 PM »

Apol, what is CAL?

Cabinet Assigned Loss.

Quote from: STIN 522 Issue 1
1) Changing the CAL (cabinet assigned loss) value of the FTTC cabinet from EdB to
0dB (where E is the CAL assigned to that cabinet) for lines still operating under
17a. Removing the CAL shaping for LR-VDSL2 lines so that no PSD shaping is
applied to the downstream VDSL2 signals, other than the G.993.2 limits.
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WWWombat

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2016, 05:46:02 PM »

The ANFP defines the CAL as:
Quote
Cabinet Assigned Loss, a parameter that describes the electrical length of the cables between an MDF site and a connected [PCP].

It is a measure of the distance of the E-side cable (MDF to PCP)
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burakkucat

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2016, 05:59:27 PM »

It is a measure of the distance of the E-side cable (MDF to PCP)

 . . . which uses dB as the measure of the distance.
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NewtronStar

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2016, 07:12:49 PM »

This is odd all VDSL2 lines have some sort of PSD shaping applied to there line to avoid ADSL users from being swamped by crosstalk from those FTTC lines

It is hard to see LR-VDSL working without vectoring being active or no active ADSL users at the exchange and TBH have never come across an exchange that does not provide some sort of xDSL service  :-\
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WWWombat

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2016, 07:17:27 PM »

The first trial in Isfield was held there precisely because there is no ADSL service.

Anywhere else, cabinets with LR-VDSL will require ADSL subscribers to be eradicated. That isn't *all* ADSL subscribers on the exchange; just the ones on the cabinet.
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NewtronStar

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2016, 09:01:04 PM »

Can see what you mean there is no ADSL at this exchange
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S.Stephenson

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2016, 09:26:29 PM »

Will ofcom actually allow BT to shut off ADSL to meet a USO?

Especially in LLU areas  :-\
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j0hn

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Re: BT LR-VDSL trial in Isle of Lewis
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2016, 09:58:35 PM »

Ofcom have given permission for ADSL users on trial cabinets to have their service terminated or migrated to LR-VDSL2
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