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[Remers]

I have been suffering intermittent problems with my ADSL BB for months now. I have an ongoing case with BT and am damned if I will let them close it until I get an answer. I have strggled through the BTINDIA debacle and have finally been receiving some great help from BT.

However,

They seem to be unable or unwiling to answer this simple question

"Despite the fact the the target SNR has been reset to 6bd on no less than 5 occassions, WHY IS THE DLM RESSETTING ME TO 3db and causing line instability!!???

Please help this is driving me mad!!!

[ejs]

People might be able to give a more informed response if you provide us with your DSL stats.

The DLM will lower the target SNRM if it determines the line is currently performing well. How quickly do you ask for it to be reset to 6 dB once you see it's been changed to 3 dB? It's possible the DLM would increase the target SNRM back to 6 by itself after a few days of instability.

Also, what modem/router are you using? I think there might be a few which don't handle a 3 dB target SNRM very well, possibly because they tend to connect at a higher speed than others, which is consequently less stable.

[Remers]

Thanks for that ejs. I am using HH5. I am getting some very useful help from BT mods, but I want to learn about this stuff for my own piece of mind.

The drop out coincides with these messages

17:33:51, 06 Aug.   (273596.280000) PPPoA is down after 460 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN ATM over DSL -​ Down)]
17:33:49, 06 Aug.   (273593.640000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

Here are my Router Stats.

1. Product name:   BT Home Hub
2. Serial number:   
3. Firmware version:   Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204.1.11 (Type A) Last updated 17/03/16
4. Board version:   BT Hub 5A
5. DSL uptime:   0 days, 04:10:41
6. Data rate:   1013 / 18694
7. Maximum data rate:   1017 / 18836
8. Noise margin:   6.7 / 3.0
9. Line attenuation:   13.6 / 28.4
10. Signal attenuation:   13.3 / 26.7
11. Data sent/received:   2.2 MB / 38.5 MB
12. Broadband username:   bthomehub@btbroadband.com
13. BT Wi-fi:   No
14. 2.4 GHz Wireless network/SSID:   
15. 2.4 GHz Wireless connections:   Enabled (802.11 b/g/n (up to 144 Mb/s))
16. 2.4 GHz Wireless security:   WPA2
17. 2.4 GHz Wireless channel:   11
18. 5 GHz Wireless network/SSID:   
19. 5 GHz Wireless connections:   Disabled
20. 5 GHz Wireless security:   WPA2
21. 5 GHz Wireless channel:   Automatic (Smart Wireless)
22. Firewall:   Default
23. MAC Address:
24. VPI/VCI:   0 / 38
25. Modulation:   G.992.5 Annex A
26. Latency type:   Interleaved
27. Software variant:   AA
28. Boot loader:   1.0.0

ADSL Products                  
   Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)   Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)   Downstream Range(Mbps)   Availability Date      
Left in Jumper                  
WBC ADSL 2+    Up to 14.5    --    12 to 16.5    Available    --    --
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M    Up to 14.5    Up to 1    12 to 16.5    Available    --    --
ADSL Max    Up to 8    --    7 to 8    Available    --    --
Fixed Rate    2   --    --    Available    --    --
                  
Other Offerings                  
                  
            Availability Date      
VDSL Multicast    --    --    --    Available    --    --
ADSL Multicast    --    --    --    Available    --    --

[Remers]

I have posted the following WAN log as additional information for you fine folk. 14:10 on 3rd is when the last BT OpenReach engineer reset my SNR connection and apparently did a Tie Pair change at the local exchange. Prior to these changes I was seeing a "Line cord" message on my BT6500 that coincided with the drops. Only noticed as I was sitting next to the phone on one occasion.

22:48:07, 06 Aug.   (292452.150000) WAN operating mode is ADSL
22:48:07, 06 Aug.   (292452.150000) Last WAN operating mode was ADSL
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.840000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.810000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.810000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.790000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.790000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.780000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.130000) PPPoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 38 Down Rate=19086Kbps, Up Rate=1003Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.1dB, Up=6.1dB
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.120000) CHAP authentication successful
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.030000) CHAP Receive Challenge
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.030000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.030000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.000000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.000000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.000000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.000000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292448.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:01, 06 Aug.   (292445.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:58, 06 Aug.   (292442.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:55, 06 Aug.   (292439.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:52, 06 Aug.   (292436.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:45, 06 Aug.   (292430.240000) ETHoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 35 Down Rate=19086Kbps, Up Rate=1003Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.0dB, Up=6.1dB
22:47:45, 06 Aug.   (292430.240000) ATM over DSL is up
22:46:51, 06 Aug.   (292375.870000) ATM over DSL is down after 312 minutes uptime
22:46:51, 06 Aug.   (292375.870000) ETHoA is down after 312 minutes uptime
22:46:51, 06 Aug.   (292375.860000) PPPoA is down after 311 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN ATM over DSL -​ Down)]
22:46:48, 06 Aug.   (292373.140000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]
17:35:09, 06 Aug.   (273673.970000) WAN operating mode is ADSL
17:35:09, 06 Aug.   (273673.970000) Last WAN operating mode was ADSL
17:35:08, 06 Aug.   (273672.700000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
17:35:08, 06 Aug.   (273672.680000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
17:35:08, 06 Aug.   (273672.670000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
17:35:08, 06 Aug.   (273672.650000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
17:35:08, 06 Aug.   (273672.650000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
17:35:08, 06 Aug.   (273672.650000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273671.050000) PPPoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 38 Down Rate=18694Kbps, Up Rate=1013Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.1dB, Up=6.0dB
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273671.030000) CHAP authentication successful
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273670.960000) CHAP Receive Challenge
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273670.960000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273670.960000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273670.930000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273670.930000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273670.930000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273670.930000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
17:35:06, 06 Aug.   (273670.840000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
17:35:03, 06 Aug.   (273667.840000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
17:35:00, 06 Aug.   (273664.840000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
17:34:57, 06 Aug.   (273661.840000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
17:34:54, 06 Aug.   (273658.840000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
17:34:48, 06 Aug.   (273652.550000) ETHoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 35 Down Rate=18694Kbps, Up Rate=1013Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.1dB, Up=6.0dB
17:34:48, 06 Aug.   (273652.550000) ATM over DSL is up
17:33:51, 06 Aug.   (273596.280000) ATM over DSL is down after 460 minutes uptime
17:33:51, 06 Aug.   (273596.280000) ETHoA is down after 460 minutes uptime
17:33:51, 06 Aug.   (273596.280000) PPPoA is down after 460 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN ATM over DSL -​ Down)]
17:33:49, 06 Aug.   (273593.640000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]
09:53:46, 06 Aug.   (245992.400000) WAN operating mode is ADSL
09:53:46, 06 Aug.   (245992.400000) Last WAN operating mode was ADSL
09:53:45, 06 Aug.   (245991.050000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:53:45, 06 Aug.   (245991.030000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
09:53:45, 06 Aug.   (245991.030000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
09:53:45, 06 Aug.   (245991.010000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
09:53:45, 06 Aug.   (245991.010000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
09:53:45, 06 Aug.   (245991.000000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.330000) PPPoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 38 Down Rate=18966Kbps, Up Rate=1017Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.0dB, Up=6.0dB
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.310000) CHAP authentication successful
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.040000) CHAP Receive Challenge
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.040000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.030000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.010000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.010000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.010000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245989.010000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
09:53:43, 06 Aug.   (245988.800000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:53:40, 06 Aug.   (245985.800000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:53:37, 06 Aug.   (245982.800000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:53:34, 06 Aug.   (245979.800000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:53:31, 06 Aug.   (245976.800000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
09:53:24, 06 Aug.   (245970.170000) ETHoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 35 Down Rate=18966Kbps, Up Rate=1017Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.0dB, Up=6.0dB
09:53:24, 06 Aug.   (245970.170000) ATM over DSL is up
09:52:26, 06 Aug.   (245912.490000) ATM over DSL is down after 4062 minutes uptime
09:52:26, 06 Aug.   (245912.490000) ETHoA is down after 4062 minutes uptime
09:52:23, 06 Aug.   (245908.790000) PPPoA is down after 4061 minutes uptime [Disconnected]
14:10:42, 03 Aug.   ( 2227.090000) WAN operating mode is ADSL
14:10:42, 03 Aug.   ( 2227.090000) Last WAN operating mode was ADSL
14:10:41, 03 Aug.   ( 2225.860000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
14:10:41, 03 Aug.   ( 2225.830000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
14:10:41, 03 Aug.   ( 2225.830000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
14:10:41, 03 Aug.   ( 2225.710000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
14:10:41, 03 Aug.   ( 2225.710000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
14:10:41, 03 Aug.   ( 2225.620000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
14:10:39, 03 Aug.   ( 2224.050000) PPPoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 38 Down Rate=17232Kbps, Up Rate=1006Kbps; SNR Margin Down=6.1dB, Up=6.9dB
14:10:39, 03 Aug.   ( 2224.040000) CHAP authentication successful
14:10:24, 03 Aug.   ( 2208.710000) CHAP Receive Challenge
14:10:24, 03 Aug.   ( 2208.710000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
14:10:24, 03 Aug.   ( 2208.710000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
14:10:24, 03 Aug.   ( 2208.690000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
14:10:24, 03 Aug.   ( 2208.690000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
14:10:24, 03 Aug.   ( 2208.690000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
14:10:24, 03 Aug.   ( 2208.690000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request

[aesmith]

Prior to these changes I was seeing a "Line cord" message on my BT6500 that coincided with the drops.

Is the BT6500 a telephone?  If your telephone is seeing issues at that same time as the DSL drops then that sounds like a low level line problem.  I can't see how an increased target noise margin would help.  Better to get the line fixed in my opinion.   Have you reported these phone symptoms to your provider?

[parkdale]

This is exactly how my problems started, modem re-syncing at all times day and night.
You need to just keep at them untill they fix it, my line had several faults ended up replacing overhead
dropwire to house and to under ground ducting as well.
Can you hear any noise using telephone hand set?

[Remers]

AES - Sorry the BT 6500 is a cordless Dect phone. I only have one socket in the house, it being the master. I have reported everything to BT at one point or another and inform the visiting engineer of all that has happened/been done. I live in a small village and 35 out of 40 people stuck their hand up at a recent meeting when asked "Is anyone having problems with Broadband". I have reported all of it. It feels like they want my first born before they will fix this thing. Before finally getting some help from the UK guys, India was insisting the problem was in the house. The Engineers have checked everything. 5 Engineers and they all say the line is fine. There just does not seem to be any continuity or ownership in the OpenReach organisation. One guy turns up, does his bit and legs it. I would never have run my business like this.

Parkside - There is a slight crackle, but I don't have a corded phone and worry that it might just be the phone. I have reported it and again the engineer has run his quiet line test when here and reports it as all OK.

I will keep on at them. One guy is a Ham radio enthusiast and he has reported 30db being introduced into the line from someone, but BT won't send out a REIN guy.

[burakkucat]

I believe the disconnect-reconnect sequences that you are seeing are actually a manifestation of the "HH5 problem". I suspect that if you used a different modem/router all would then be good. 

[Remers]

That's interesting burakkacat. I have had two new modems and asked during my last conversation with BT whether there was a known problem with the HH5 and should I get one of the new ones. Can you enlighten me as to what the problem might be?

[burakkucat]

Can you enlighten me as to what the problem might be?

I wish I could.   

To the best of my knowledge, when the HH5 was first released (with its then current firmware image), it would regularly drop the current PPP session and then create a new session. To an average end user who was "just using the connection", it appeared as if their broadband connection was "pausing". Only by looking at the device's log and then seeing similar to what you have shown (one complete cycle I reproduce below) --

22:48:07, 06 Aug.   (292452.150000) WAN operating mode is ADSL
22:48:07, 06 Aug.   (292452.150000) Last WAN operating mode was ADSL
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.840000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.810000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.810000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.790000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.790000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
22:48:06, 06 Aug.   (292450.780000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.130000) PPPoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 38 Down Rate=19086Kbps, Up Rate=1003Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.1dB, Up=6.1dB
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.120000) CHAP authentication successful
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.030000) CHAP Receive Challenge
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.030000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.030000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.000000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.000000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.000000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292449.000000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
22:48:04, 06 Aug.   (292448.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:48:01, 06 Aug.   (292445.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:58, 06 Aug.   (292442.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:55, 06 Aug.   (292439.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:52, 06 Aug.   (292436.820000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
22:47:45, 06 Aug.   (292430.240000) ETHoA is up -​ VPI: 0, VCI: 35 Down Rate=19086Kbps, Up Rate=1003Kbps; SNR Margin Down=3.0dB, Up=6.1dB
22:47:45, 06 Aug.   (292430.240000) ATM over DSL is up
22:46:51, 06 Aug.   (292375.870000) ATM over DSL is down after 312 minutes uptime
22:46:51, 06 Aug.   (292375.870000) ETHoA is down after 312 minutes uptime
22:46:51, 06 Aug.   (292375.860000) PPPoA is down after 311 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN ATM over DSL -​ Down)]
22:46:48, 06 Aug.   (292373.140000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

There were numerous posts regarding this problem in the Think Broadband Forum which slowly abated when: (1) usage of the HH5 was abandoned for a different device (2) new firmware was released. I think the most vociferous posts were from users with a G.993.2 (VDSL2, a.k.a. FTTC) service. There may have also reports from users of G.992.{1|3|5} (a.k.a. ADSL2) services . . . but I don't have any recollection, as such.

[aesmith]

Would the HH5 problem knock the phone off?

[burakkucat]

Would the HH5 problem knock the phone off?

I have not read of any such occurrences . . . 

[Remers]

Hi,

I thought I would carry out some tests this morning. I called the house from my Cellphone, answered it and the broadband dropped out. Called the house again and let it ring, the broadband dropped out Down SNR was hovering around 3. Called again and the BB remained stable. I have seen drops on the first call of the day before but not recorded the actual times, so couldn't prove it. BT called this afternoon and I have had my SNR reset to 6, the BB has been stable since. I will test again in the morning to see if these first calls cause further drops wit SNR at 6.

Can the DLM be told to leave me alone? I want 6 and 17.5Mbps ish speed. I don't really care about 3 and 19.0 and drops three or four times a day.

[burakkucat]

Can the DLM be told to leave me alone?

Unfortunately the answer to that straightforward question is "no". 

[ejs]

I thought it was possible for the ADSL2+ DLM to be set so that it doesn't alter things?