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Author Topic: Plusnet migration problems - any help?  (Read 5364 times)

sjwhite26

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Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« on: July 24, 2016, 03:30:53 PM »

Hi

a couple of weeks ago Plusnet transferred me onto their new network.

I found out because my download speed decreased significantly from 74mbs to 36.34mbs (that is the speed via speed tests), up was its usual 18 mbs. 

My line details, I'm about 38m (metres) from the cab, I sync at 102,236/31,426 kbps, limited to 79,998/19,999 kbps.  Very stable line, re-connections only happen when I re-boot the router (rarely for firmware updates)

Using the BT wholesale test it showed that my line was limited to 38.398 mbs, so I contacted Plusnet and I found out that they had transferred me, however, they also stated I was on the right product so it was a BT issue.  After waiting and dealing with the frustrating Plusnet support (first telling me that the speed I get is all I can expect).  An Openreach engineer comes out with not a clue, checked I was on the correct product (I was) then spoke to someone at the office and all they can do is turn my port off and on again or flex it. 

This pushes my speed up, but now I'm limited to 72.98mbs with actual speed at 70.15 and not the 77/78mbs I had before.  Plusnet appear either not to know the answer to my question or just don't care, to honest I think its both. 

I appreciate that the speed is good, but I feel am being artificially held back due to the work by Plusnet/BT from a line that usually has exceptional speed/throughput. Frankly as everything gets busier and the possibility of cross talk, I want to start from the best position or at the very least the Plusnet migration should not have had a detrimental impact on my line.

would changing supplier and being re-provisioned remove this artificial cap s frankly I'm rather annoyed at their customer service ability and the fact they have ignored me and my question for over a week?
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WWWombat

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2016, 06:24:10 PM »

You can probably get some help, but I would feel more comfortable giving you answers if you...
a) distinguished some of your numbers between sync speeds, attainable speeds, and the results of speed tests.
b) added some timescales between the changes

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sjwhite26

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2016, 06:41:38 PM »

Okay thanks.

Approximately 3 weeks ago my ip profile was 78 and my results via a speed test would be 73/74.  This was checked on the weekend before the change was made.

On 4 July I was migrated, on 6 July I noticed the reduction in speed.  IP profile was 38.98 and speed tests were 36.  Line speed at Plusnet showed 21.

After BT arrived IP profile is now 72.98 rather than 78.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.


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Chrysalis

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2016, 08:45:38 PM »

if the only information you have is the ip profile then its diffilcult to know what the problem is, all we know is that your sync speed is now lower, but no idea if its due to a stability profile applied to the line or not.  If you not able to use a modem which supplies stats then ask plusnet to provide you the results of a gea test which should show your sync speed and DLM profile.
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sjwhite26

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2016, 09:43:54 PM »

Hi

Does this help?

I have attached my stats from my Asus router and I can ask Plusnet for a GEA test, but that will take some time.

Thanks

Sarah



[attachment deleted by admin]
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Starman

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2016, 10:04:52 PM »

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sjwhite26

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2016, 10:08:24 PM »

Its now reported at 72.8mb.
2 days before being migrated in was 78mb
Once migrated in was 21mb
After my first discussion with Plusnet it returned to 78mb
Then once BT Openreach worked on the line and Plusnet finally responded to me post engineer review it went to 72.8mb

I just want to know what they did to my line.
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j0hn

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2016, 10:59:03 PM »

I have 1 of the Asus modems, worst pieces of tech I've ever owned. The incredibly short length of your line means you may not notice it's many problems. The router part is amazing, the mediatek chipset the modem uses is useless.

make sure UPBO - upstream power back off (VDSL) is enabled in DSL Settings. It adversely affects your neighbours lines if not. it's not an option you'll find on other modems, for good reason.

You're actually synced at the full 80/20, it's just the ip profile that's lower. I know absolutely nothing about ip profiles as I haven't had 1 for nearly 10 years.
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WWWombat

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016, 11:48:15 AM »

There are 5 layers of problem here:
1) The actual VDSL2 behaviour on the line.
2) The reporting by the ASUS, at minimum, and possibly its behaviour.
3) The copy of the IP profile in Plusnet (visible as "current line speed").
4) The reporting of the IP Profile in BT (visible in BT speedtests).
5) Plusnet performance when everything is correct.

It looks like you have had problems with all of them, that might be contributing to the current issue

1) Your line is currently syncing at the highest possible speed: 79998/19999 is close enough to 80/20, with plenty of spare headroom.

I suspect that when Plusnet shows "78Mb" as the "current line speed", it means it hasn't received an update from BT. My line (with an 80/20 sync, and a similar amount of headroom), currently shows "77Mb" - which I thought was the standard value when things worked OK.

Some of the other peices of information suggest that the sync speed hasn't always been 80/20.

2) The ASUS is reporting something wrong about the state of your line. It seems to be both reporting "Fastpath", which only happens when DLM has set "INP=0" and "delay=0". However, your ASUS is reporting non-zero INP values both upstream and downstream, and both are non-standard.

In addition, your ASUS is reporting that your current downstream sync is 80Mbps with a maximum attainable of 102Mbps - yet it reports the SNRM to be only 6.5dB. That isn't consistent; to get an attainable of 102Mbps would require an SNRM of around 11.5dB.

Something is a off in the reporting there, and (like @j0hn), I have something of a distrust for current ASUS VDSL2 modems. It is hard to figure what they are doing.

In particular, it seems to be hard to figure what DLM has done to the line.

3) The plusnet copy of the "IP Profile", the "current line speed" has seen plenty wrong, starting with the value of 21 when the sync speeds were wrong.

However, seeing this go from 78 to a value of 72.8 suggests that the sync speed has been something different from 80/20 recently. And that the process that copies the IP profile from BT to Plusnet has caught a drop in speed, but has missed the subsequent increase in speed.

One cause of a drop from a full 80/20 sync is when DLM imposes interleaving and FEC correction, which can steal ~ 10% of your speed. We have started to see this more and more after a line is given a DLM reset ... and one of those now seems to happen as part of a migration. It is getting common to see someone complain "I just migrated and lost some of my speed" ... and you may have done the same. *If* that happened, then there's a good chance that DLM changed the settings again 2 days later.

So ... I might suspect that your "migration" caused a DLM reset, which caused some speed changes, which caused some IP-Profile changes, which caused some "current line speed" changes. But it isn't clear and obvious, because I don't trust the ASUS data (or behaviour), and I'm not 100% sure whether you have told us both values for the "IP Profile" (as BT knows it) *and* the "current line speed" (as Plusnet's own copy of BT's IP profile).

HOWEVER.... If the ASUS is correct that your attainable is 103Mbps, your line should easily have absorbed any extra overhead, and retained an 80/20 sync ... so there wouldn't have been a sync change or an IP profile change. On the other hand, if the ASUS is right with an SNRM of only 6.5dB, then the line wouldn't have had enough spare capacity. The ASUS is making it hard to know what figures to trust, so making it hard to predict behaviour.

If Plusnet has missed a report of an increase in IP profile, there are 2 ways to attempt to trigger an update:
a) Stop and restart the PPP session within the router. I can't advise on how to do this on an ASUS
b) Power cycle the whole modem/router. The best practice for doing this, to avoid DLM intervention, is to leave the modem/router powered down for 30 minutes.

After this, you should get the "current line speed" to 77Mbps (if your sync speed is truly 80/20). If you can't trigger a change yourself, you might need to ask Plusnet support to change it manually - either by phone, or by PN's forum.

4) BT's own copy of the IP profile is most easily accessed via their speedtester
http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/
and following the "extra diagnostics" path.

While Plusnet have set my "current line speed" to 77Mb, my "IP Profile" reported by the speedtester is 77.35Mbps

(I'm not sure you have told us this value, and have instead reported the Plusnet value. If I'm wrong, then I apologise.)

However, BT appear to hold two copies of the IP Profile internally, and only one of them gets displayed to you. It has been known for BT to end up with a mismatch internally, which can cause the issue you have seen.

5) Once everything is corrected, your download throughput is likely to be around 74Mbps on a Plusnet line. This is a couple of Mbps below the peak available to other ISPs (such as BT Retail). It looks like their method of running QoS causes a loss of the very top slice of performance, but this has never been officially acknowledged.
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sjwhite26

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Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 12:14:17 PM »

Hi

Thank you for your long and detailed answer.  I do have a BT modem that I could use, I am on a Broadcom cabinet and originally had an ECI modem which caused issues when GINP was turned on so I bought a compatible box and last year invested in the Asus. 

Plusnet completed a GEA for me below.  Note they cannot detect my line and even BT have not been able too, confirmed at the engineer visit.  Plus my line has grown by 5m in the last 3 weeks :)


 

DescriptionGEA service test completed and no fault found but unable to check for customer equipment connected to modem.
Main Fault LocationOK
Sync StatusIn Sync
Downstream Speed0.0 Mbps
Upstream Speed20.0 Mbps
Appointment RequiredN
Fault Report AdvisedN
NTE Power StatusPowerOn
Voice Line Test ResultPass
Bridge TapNot Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse NoiseNot Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres43.0
Upstream Rate AssessmentVery Good
Downstream Rate AssessmentVery Good
Interference PatternNot Detected
Service ImpactNo Impact Observed
Home Wiring ProblemNot Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate0.0
Customer Traffic LevelUpstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Profile Name0.128M-80M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off
 

Obviously that downstream sync is wrong. I'll run the test again shortly.

 Plusnet Help Team

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sjwhite26

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Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 12:34:37 PM »

Sorry just to confirm, would it be of use to change over to the Broadcom modem and just use the Asus for wifi etc.?

If Asus isn't very good - how about the netgear 7800?  I live in a dense area and need access to the DFS 5Ghz channels to ensure a good signal internally.  My iMac picks up over 20 good wifi signals.  I also run my security etc via wifi so want reliability, which I have had from the Asus to date.


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NEXUS2345

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2016, 12:52:41 PM »

Some Asus models can be configured to work with an external modem and work great. Some don't though, so could you tell us which model you have?
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sjwhite26

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2016, 01:46:10 PM »

Hi I have a dsl-ac68u (I know these have caused issues for some, but has been fine from day one for me).  I also have an older router only Asus I could use in the meantime  (wifi is weaker though) to obtain some stats.


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NEXUS2345

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 02:09:16 PM »

The AC68U can be configured to allow LAN port 1 to be used as a WAN port for a separate modem. I would suggest you get an HG612 or a Zyxel VMG8924 and set them in bridge mode, then use the Asus to create the PPPoE session.
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IDNet Openreach FTTP 1000/115 + Asus RT-AX92U | Virgin Media 200 + SuperHub 3 + Synology MR2200ac mesh | Sky 80/20 with WiFi Guarantee on Huawei 288 cabinet

WWWombat

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Re: Plusnet migration problems - any help?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2016, 02:26:30 PM »

If Asus isn't very good - how about the netgear 7800?  I live in a dense area and need access to the DFS 5Ghz channels to ensure a good signal internally.  My iMac picks up over 20 good wifi signals.  I also run my security etc via wifi so want reliability, which I have had from the Asus to date.

I must admit, I chose the opposite approach to this same problem. I left my router/modem as-is, and stepped towards commercial wifi access points instead, allowing me to choose to use multiple access points if needed. I've left the router's WiFi turned on, but named with a "Backup" SSID so it doesn't get used most of the time.
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