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Author Topic: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016  (Read 16299 times)

WWWombat

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2016, 06:56:48 PM »

What is MCT?

I agree that BT's attitude towards overriding settings is all to do with the impact on neighbouring lines. As DLM gets 'smarter', it is moving away from single-line impacts to multi-line balancing - which is subverted by one user who knows better...

Also interesting to see tone-sets being cycled. It suggests the modem has delved into some strangely unused parts of the firmware...
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kitz

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kitz

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2016, 07:10:47 PM »

@chyrs and @wwwombat

Cant recall what it was with the ASUS now but it was another nasty that could severely impact neighbouring lines.   
I think it was ability to ramp up the power, resulting in better SNR. Obviously I wouldn't want one of my neighbouring lines doing that :(
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ejs

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2016, 07:20:45 PM »

The tone-sets being cycled suggests to me that it's not configured appropriately for the Openreach network. How is the modem supposed to know which tone-sets it can and cannot use before or during the handshaking process? I'm not sure it can unless you configure it or the manufacturer configures it in the firmware for you.

Here is a comment in the AdslCoreDefs.h file from the Openreach HG612 source code release:
Quote
Revision 1.1.2.1  2010/01/07 03:49:11  l67944
Openreach OR357
The Huawei provided VDSL2 CPE (HG612) uses both A43c and V43 tone sets in its upstream handshake. Furthermore, upstream power back off is not applied in the V43 tones launched by the CPE. This means that the U/S handshake tones are violating the ANFP.

So Huawei had to adjust the HG612 firmware during development so that it did the right things.

The Lantiq dsl_cpe_pipe commands which include getting or setting the handshake tone-sets are llcg and llcs (low-level configuration get/set).

The ASUS modems have a setting in their GUI for enabling or disabling UPBO (Upstream Power Back-Off), if it were disabled, the upstream from a short line could adversely affect longer lines. And because people were having issues with it, they may have tried switching off and on all sorts of things, and most people can only observe how those settings affected their own connection.
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Chrysalis

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #64 on: May 10, 2016, 07:31:57 PM »

@chyrs and @wwwombat

Cant recall what it was with the ASUS now but it was another nasty that could severely impact neighbouring lines.   
I think it was ability to ramp up the power, resulting in better SNR. Obviously I wouldn't want one of my neighbouring lines doing that :(

and the ignoring Upstream power cutback.
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kitz

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2016, 07:46:01 PM »

Just had a look at the available settings - theres quite a few such as disabling PBO, adjusting GAIN etc.
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burakkucat

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2016, 07:59:39 PM »

Cant recall what it was with the ASUS now but it was another nasty that could severely impact neighbouring lines.   

I have a vague memory that it was the ability of the EU to override the USPBO by a configuration option in the GUI.  :-\
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parkdale

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2016, 08:09:07 PM »

My Fritzbox 3490 is currently connecting using these settings. I have had BTOR out 6 times in last couple of weeks trying to sort out line noise (Voice).
Today is quite.
It's using tone set J43 that's interesting me, is their any advantages. have also seen A43 and A43c as well>
For a short time I was using G.inp
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kitz

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #68 on: May 10, 2016, 10:10:02 PM »

It gets quite complicated - although VDSL2 in the UK is Annex B, it shares some of the same tones as Annex A.
 
I think this is the latest document as it mentions additional support for G.INP and G.Vector.
Recommendation G.994.1 Handshake procedures for digital subscriber line transceivers

These are the VDSL2 profiles used by Openreach :

   ITU-T G.993.2 where support of a profile requiring US0 (Note 4)
   ITU-T G.993.2 with support of Annex B bandplan HPE17 or HPE30


So according to the specifications, it looks like it should only be using A43... or A43c which gives additional support for adsl2+ annex_M
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kitz

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #69 on: May 10, 2016, 10:52:51 PM »

Quote
It's using tone set J43 that's interesting me, is their any advantages.

J43 is intended for DSL over ISDN... not POTS.

According to this tones normally reserved for voice are used for DSL.
"Annex J can not have POTS on the same line".

Quote
I have had BTOR out 6 times in last couple of weeks trying to sort out line noise (Voice).

 :hmm: :ouch:
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2016, 03:17:00 AM »

MCT = Modem Conformance Testing

Ah - Ta. Not an abbreviation Ive come across enough to stick in the grey matter.

As for everything else ... ugh. DLM gets a bad press, but subverting it is far worse. Perhaps we need that DLM supervision process to monitor for make/model, and start imposing a 2Mb/2Mb profile... that would be preferable to banning them.

It gets quite complicated - although VDSL2 in the UK is Annex B, it shares some of the same tones as Annex A.
 
I think this is the latest document as it mentions additional support for G.INP and G.Vector.
Recommendation G.994.1 Handshake procedures for digital subscriber line transceivers

These are the VDSL2 profiles used by Openreach :

   ITU-T G.993.2 where support of a profile requiring US0 (Note 4)
   ITU-T G.993.2 with support of Annex B bandplan HPE17 or HPE30


So according to the specifications, it looks like it should only be using A43... or A43c which gives additional support for adsl2+ annex_M

Sin 498 specifies A43 and A43c with the following quote:
Quote
The modem shall support operating with cabinet based VDSL2. This
involves supporting tone-sets A43 and A43C (as defined in G.994.1
Amendment 1[4]), plus downstream PSD shaping and upstream power
back-off as defined in G.997.1[5] and G.993.2[3]. The use of additional
tone-sets (B43, B43c, V43) is not permitted as these may cause adverse
interference to other DSL systems operating in the same cable binder.
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parkdale

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2016, 06:17:39 PM »

Rebooted router today ... now on A43!! line still quite, although did see a burst of CRC errors at 3-4 in the morning.
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WWWombat

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2016, 09:42:52 PM »

Having checked G.994.1, I think the tone-sets only matter during initialisation - a way for modem and DSLAM to find each other. After that, things just run over the tones agreed at initialisation. (The medley?)
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burakkucat

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Re: G.INP/Retransmission roll-out on ECI cabinets - UPDATE 30/04/2016
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2016, 12:04:09 AM »

I think the terminology is discovery phase (during the initialisation) and medley phase (during "showtime").
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