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Author Topic: 3dB Target SNRm Live?  (Read 28730 times)

marjohn56

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #285 on: September 10, 2017, 07:50:34 PM »

As that's 91% it could be you're on high retransmission

Don't think so, but my stats are there on MDWS so you can take a look and confirm or reject that idea.

Edit.

That would appear to be the case.... what a con.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 09:47:58 AM by marjohn56 »
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NewtronStar

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #286 on: September 21, 2017, 07:49:26 PM »

Is it normal for a line to get a few DLM resyncs before it gets the 5dB profile and few more DLM resyncs after it's applied in the first 24 hours ?
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marjohn56

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #287 on: September 22, 2017, 08:23:25 PM »

Is it normal for a line to get a few DLM resyncs before it gets the 5dB profile and few more DLM resyncs after it's applied in the first 24 hours ?

Not with my drop, 3 clean steps down to 3.3db, one re-sync at approx 5,  4 and 3.3. only re-sync was caused by me forcing the sync down to 70Mbps to try and force a lower G Inp value... It didn't work though.
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NewtronStar

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #288 on: September 22, 2017, 08:45:03 PM »

TBH don't even know if this is the sub SNRm but it looks like it, don't have a steady SNRM which  makes this even harder DLM resyncs have settled down.
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AngelRex

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #289 on: October 02, 2017, 12:35:54 PM »

With the recent news of ECI maybe getting a xdb trial from the 20th of this month, do we have any more facts about the huawei xdb changes that are meant to be still on going?

My line is still 6.1-6.6db and only synced at 35mb on a 40/10 product, just wondering if I'll ever see this mythical unicorn :D
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pooclah

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #290 on: October 02, 2017, 06:50:03 PM »

Iíve also been wondering if the roll out is finished.  Iím on a Huawei cab with a margin of 6.3 to 6.4, not that the xDB would make much difference to me being on a 76Mb synch but it would be nice to see the 79999 back in the stats.
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NewtronStar

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #291 on: October 02, 2017, 07:57:37 PM »

A higher sync is not always better with XdB as once your INP goes into higher retransmit you lose some throughput now on 5dB with a sync of 39551 but the throughput is only 35811 kbps = 90% of 96% on low restransmit and 4dB was better at 92%

TBH I would prefer to have a sync of 38000 kbps with a interleaving depth of 8 and INP: 46.00 @ 96% throughput.
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AngelRex

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #292 on: October 03, 2017, 08:11:24 AM »

A higher sync is not always better with XdB as once your INP goes into higher retransmit you lose some throughput now on 5dB with a sync of 39551 but the throughput is only 35811 kbps = 90% of 96% on low restransmit and 4dB was better at 92%

TBH I would prefer to have a sync of 38000 kbps with a interleaving depth of 8 and INP: 46.00 @ 96% throughput.

That's great cheers.

I'm leaving my line alone for a bit, think it was 52 & 42 on inp with 8 down and 4 up
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marjohn56

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #293 on: October 03, 2017, 09:07:17 AM »

A higher sync is not always better with XdB as once your INP goes into higher retransmit you lose some throughput now on 5dB with a sync of 39551 but the throughput is only 35811 kbps = 90% of 96% on low restransmit and 4dB was better at 92%

TBH I would prefer to have a sync of 38000 kbps with a interleaving depth of 8 and INP: 46.00 @ 96% throughput.

Too true. I have just changed modem from an HG612 through a Zyxel 1312 and I'm now using a Billion 8800NL. The Billion wins on sync. However it matters not which one is syncing fastest as I have, as you say got a higher rtx level. So although I have gained just over 11Mbps from a sync of 63Mbps to a sync of over 74Mpbs, my throughput was being limited to approx 68.4Mpbs. In saying all that, I did have a rtx of 52 it'a now at 51, by reducing the sync the throughput has increased to around 69.2, so I have achieved a slightly higher throughput by reducing the sync rate to 71.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 09:26:40 AM by marjohn56 »
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Ixel

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #294 on: October 03, 2017, 10:33:53 AM »

Too true. I have just changed modem from an HG612 through a Zyxel 1312 and I'm now using a Billion 8800NL. The Billion wins on sync. However it matters not which one is syncing fastest as I have, as you say got a higher rtx level. So although I have gained just over 11Mbps from a sync of 63Mbps to a sync of over 74Mpbs, my throughput was being limited to approx 68.4Mpbs. In saying all that, I did have a rtx of 52 it'a now at 51, by reducing the sync the throughput has increased to around 69.2, so I have achieved a slightly higher throughput by reducing the sync rate to 71.

Sorry to go slightly off topic here, but are you saying you gained over 11Mbps from switching from a HG612 to a Billion 8800NL (assuming R2) :o? That's an impressive increase if so, makes me wonder if I should buy a Billion too (just for modem only).

EDIT: Just read some posts that the R2 gives worse performance than the HG612, where the first version of the 8800NL gave better performance, so I'm guessing you have the first version.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 10:43:50 AM by Ixel »
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AngelRex

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #295 on: October 03, 2017, 01:19:50 PM »

OK so does an increase in INP reduce the max attainable? 

1. My line INP has increased from 45 to 52
2. My Max attain is now 37meg and synced at 35meg
3. The below line stats show attain 42meg sync 40meg

These are my line stats from before the thunderstorm in May :

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:   0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:   Upstream rate = 6531 Kbps, Downstream rate = 42040 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 6604 Kbps, Downstream rate = 40000 Kbps
Bearer:   1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:   L0
Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:   Profile 17a
TPS-TC:   PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:   U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:   No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
Down   Up
SNR (dB):   7.1   5.9
Attn(dB):   22.9   0.0
Pwr(dBm):   11.0   -1.3
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc:   -6   26
B:   138   207
M:   1   1
T:   0   39
R:   8   6
S:   0.1101   1.0000
L:   10684   1712
D:   16   1
I:   147   107
N:   147   214
Q:   16   0
V:   12   0
RxQueue:   27   0
TxQueue:   9   0
G.INP Framing:   18   0
G.INP lookback:   9   0
RRC bits:   0   24
Bearer 1
MSGc:   90   -6
B:   0   0
M:   2   0
T:   2   0
R:   16   0
S:   10.6667   0.0000
L:   24   0
D:   1   0
I:   32   0
N:   32   0
Q:   0   0
V:   0   0
RxQueue:   0   0
TxQueue:   0   0
G.INP Framing:   0   0
G.INP lookback:   0   0
RRC bits:   0   0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF:   0   29698
OHFErr:   2981   865
RS:   1137461808   1158236
RSCorr:   1457020   503
RSUnCorr:   0   0
Bearer 1
OHF:   16729836   0
OHFErr:   60   0
RS:   100378646   0
RSCorr:   8896   0
RSUnCorr:   63   0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:   557383   0
rtx_c:   13725   0
rtx_uc:   118278   0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:   342   0
minEFTR:   39989   0
errFreeBits:   163884756   0

Bearer 0
HEC:   0   0
OCD:   0   0
LCD:   0   0
Total Cells:   3486525131   0
Data Cells:   277836243   0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0   0

Bearer 1
HEC:   0   0
OCD:   0   0
LCD:   0   0
Total Cells:   0   0
Data Cells:   0   0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0   0

ES:   149   763
SES:   73   0
UAS:   22   22
AS:   268726

Bearer 0
INP:   45.00   0.00
INPRein:   0.00   0.00

delay:   0   0
PER:   0.00   9.78
OR:   0.01   26.15
AgR:   40252.99   6630.10

Bearer 1
INP:   2.50   0.00
INPRein:   2.50   0.00

delay:   0   0
PER:   16.06   0.01
OR:   47.81   0.01
AgR:   47.81   0.01

Bitswap:   200904/200950   3368/3379

Total time = 1 days 2 hours 39 min 8 sec
FEC:   1457020   503
CRC:   2981   865
ES:   149   763
SES:   73   0
UAS:   22   22
LOS:   0   0
LOF:   0   0
LOM:   0   0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 8 sec
FEC:   2517   2
CRC:   0   7
ES:   0   7
SES:   0   0
UAS:   0   0
LOS:   0   0
LOF:   0   0
LOM:   0   0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:   213   1
CRC:   0   5
ES:   0   5
SES:   0   0
UAS:   0   0
LOS:   0   0
LOF:   0   0
LOM:   0   0
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 39 min 8 sec
FEC:   9931   11
CRC:   0   34
ES:   0   32
SES:   0   0
UAS:   0   0
LOS:   0   0
LOF:   0   0
LOM:   0   0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:   520042   248
CRC:   1503   319
ES:   66   261
SES:   35   0
UAS:   0   0
LOS:   0   0
LOF:   0   0
LOM:   0   0
Since Link time = 3 days 2 hours 38 min 45 sec
FEC:   1457020   503
CRC:   2981   865
ES:   149   763
SES:   73   0
UAS:   0   0
LOS:   0   0
LOF:   0   0
LOM:   0   0


-------------------------------------------------------
Stats from July :

xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason:   0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:   Upstream rate = 7128 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39212 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 7128 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35000 Kbps
Bearer:   1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:   L0
Mode:         VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:      Profile 17a
TPS-TC:         PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:      U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:      No Defect
Training Status:   Showtime
      Down      Up
SNR (dB):    7.3       6.4
Attn(dB):    23.0       0.0
Pwr(dBm):    11.0       3.6
         VDSL2 framing
         Bearer 0
MSGc:      -6      -6
B:      73      211
M:      1      1
T:      0      0
R:      6      12
S:      0.0666      0.9446
L:      9610      1897
D:      8      4
I:      80      224
N:      80      224
Q:      8      4
V:      5      1
RxQueue:      132      12
TxQueue:      33      6
G.INP Framing:      18      18
G.INP lookback:      31      6
RRC bits:      24      24
         Bearer 1
MSGc:      90      58
B:      0      0
M:      2      2
T:      2      2
R:      16      16
S:      10.6667      16.0000
L:      24      16
D:      1      1
I:      32      32
N:      32      32
Q:      0      0
V:      0      0
RxQueue:      0      0
TxQueue:      0      0
G.INP Framing:      0      0
G.INP lookback:      0      0
RRC bits:      0      0
         Counters
         Bearer 0
OHF:      0      0
OHFErr:      84      6
RS:      313733304      67258
RSCorr:      469025      8763
RSUnCorr:   0      0
         Bearer 1
OHF:      22672871      741484
OHFErr:      7      11
RS:      136036856      852009
RSCorr:      292      496
RSUnCorr:   14      0

         Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:      92432050      1279
rtx_c:      24313      70396
rtx_uc:      9272      24431

         G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:      25      1886
minEFTR:   35003      7124
errFreeBits:   194425494      992513467

         Bearer 0
HEC:      0      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   3037005364      0
Data Cells:   1090589083      0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

         Bearer 1
HEC:      0      0
OCD:      0      0
LCD:      0      0
Total Cells:   0      0
Data Cells:   0      0
Drop Cells:   0
Bit Errors:   0      0

ES:      23      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      36      36
AS:      364186

         Bearer 0
INP:      52.00      41.00
INPRein:   1.00      0.00

delay:      0      0
PER:      0.00      0.00
OR:      0.01      0.01
AgR:      35418.64   7153.55

         Bearer 1
INP:      2.50      4.00
INPRein:   2.50      4.00

delay:      0      0
PER:      16.06      16.06
OR:      47.81      31.87
AgR:      47.81   31.87

Bitswap:   282219/282222      7677/7696

Total time = 1 days 5 hours 10 min 22 sec
FEC:      469025      8763
CRC:      84      6
ES:      23      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      36      36
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 10 min 22 sec
FEC:      264      13
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:      366      7
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 5 hours 10 min 22 sec
FEC:      6987      209
CRC:      8      0
ES:      2      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:      62352      4533
CRC:      8      0
ES:      2      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Since Link time = 4 days 5 hours 9 min 45 sec
FEC:      469025      8763
CRC:      84      6
ES:      23      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 01:30:19 PM by AngelRex »
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j0hn

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #296 on: October 03, 2017, 01:35:15 PM »

Quote
OK so does an increase in INP reduce the max attainable?
No.
With old style interleaving+INP the max attainable is over estimated, by quite a bit.
With G.INP the INP value shouldn't change the max attainable. The max attainable is pretty accurate with G.INP enabled.

What NewtronStar was discussing above was the difference in throughput between retransmission high and retransmission low.
Retransmission low has an ip profile/throughput around 96.7% of sync speed.
Retransmission high has an ip profile/throughput around 91-92% of sync speed.

The lower snrm profiles tend to use retransmission high.
So while dropping from 6dB to 5dB snrm will increase your sync, it lowers your actual throughput. It's only when the line moves on to 4dB and 3dB that you will see an increase in throughput.

I've yet to see my line use retransmission low with a lower snrm profile. It appears to be possible though as BlackSheep posted his line profile changes which showed DLM trying retx low on his line.
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BT FTTC 55/10 ECI Huawei Cab - Zyxel VMG1312-B10A bridge mode + Asus RT-AC68U running Asuswrt-Merlin - minted on MDWS via DslStats

AngelRex

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #297 on: October 03, 2017, 01:47:45 PM »

No.
With old style interleaving+INP the max attainable is over estimated, by quite a bit.
With G.INP the INP value shouldn't change the max attainable. The max attainable is pretty accurate with G.INP enabled.

What NewtronStar was discussing above was the difference in throughput between retransmission high and retransmission low.
Retransmission low has an ip profile/throughput around 96.7% of sync speed.
Retransmission high has an ip profile/throughput around 91-92% of sync speed.

The lower snrm profiles tend to use retransmission high.
So while dropping from 6dB to 5dB snrm will increase your sync, it lowers your actual throughput. It's only when the line moves on to 4dB and 3dB that you will see an increase in throughput.

I've yet to see my line use retransmission low with a lower snrm profile. It appears to be possible though as BlackSheep posted his line profile changes which showed DLM trying retx low on his line.

Ok, thanks for clarifying that.  Looking at both the stats above, and given that on a mass powercut recently I resynced back up to 40/7 with max attain 44/7.5 (only to drop 5 days later to 37/7), does that just point to a cross talker dragging me down?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 01:57:33 PM by AngelRex »
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marjohn56

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #298 on: October 03, 2017, 03:53:15 PM »

Sorry to go slightly off topic here, but are you saying you gained over 11Mbps from switching from a HG612 to a Billion 8800NL (assuming R2) :o? That's an impressive increase if so, makes me wonder if I should buy a Billion too (just for modem only).

EDIT: Just read some posts that the R2 gives worse performance than the HG612, where the first version of the 8800NL gave better performance, so I'm guessing you have the first version.

Yes I bought the first 8800NL version second hand off Amazon on Sunday, twas only £39. No, the 11Mpbs increase is down to the drop from 6db to 3db. althoough I gained a Mb+ or so switching to the Billion. As a side note upload DID vastly improve with both the Billion and the Zyxel. I am now able to push the 20Mbps whereas with the HG612, hitting 18Mbps on upload was rare.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 03:58:21 PM by marjohn56 »
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gt94sss2

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Re: 3dB Target SNRm Live?
« Reply #299 on: October 06, 2017, 03:29:21 AM »

With the recent news of ECI maybe getting a xdb trial from the 20th of this month, do we have any more facts about the huawei xdb changes that are meant to be still on going?

I believe the huawei xdb changes are still going on - my parents line in Wandsworth appears to have benefited from this yesterday morning @10:31. The line is on MDWS under gt94sss2
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